Mordhau

What's the point of the Messer?

Count 171 246

Hey folks,

Coming back with a new Messer topic, Messer being a weapon from the NerdRage pack : Mordhau's gonna fail Chiv iz bitter edition.

I was curious and compared weapons stats between Messer and Longsword. I can't help but wonder, besides being a lil bit faster with the alt mode, what advantage has the Messer compared to LS, other 5 pts and even some lower weapons ? The way I see it even if the windup is slower and allows very slightly better drags it's possible to do that with the longsword which overall not only does better damage but has better reach. The alt mode is ok itself as it allows the user to have a shield, but what about the main mode (2handed)?

Here's a lil pic of the stats, I didn't add the alt mode of Messer but damage is the same, it's just the speed of release/windup that is a bit different.

messer sucks.png

Knight 2243 4030
  • 1
  • 3 Dec '18
 Runagate

To me the drags are way less readable than LS and the damage difference is nothing to neglect. LS can only two shot plate head in mordhau grip, which is much shorter and less draggable than default Messer.

Basically it's a more damaging longsword that you can one-hand.

76 153
  • 4 Dec '18
 intTobey

Wat? The stats are very different. Messer can 2hit medium chest, that's a pretty powerful feature for it's length and speed. And messer can 2hit heavy head. Also messer drags are very potent. That little bit extra turn speed can make a big difference in the right hands.

Duke 2266 4007
  • 4 Dec '18
 Huggles

overall HTK matters way more than dmg imo.

Ya LS has better dmg against light. But functionally, LS and Messer have the same damn HTK on light.

Whereas Messer actually has lower HTK when it comes to medium armor and plate, which is a huge deal. The real thing you miss out with messer is the stab.

Knight 5100 6842
  • 4 Dec '18
 Humble Staff

wat, it's just 2 points but shouldn't be the messer the one dealing more damage to lightly armored people?

Count 171 246

@intTobey said:
Wat? The stats are very different. Messer can 2hit medium chest, that's a pretty powerful feature for it's length and speed. And messer can 2hit heavy head. Also messer drags are very potent. That little bit extra turn speed can make a big difference in the right hands.

You're right, I did not paid attention to that

@Humble Staff said:
wat, it's just 2 points but shouldn't be the messer the one dealing more damage to lightly armored people?

Idk but I feel like some stats are off when you compare the pros & cons.

Knight 5100 6842
  • 1
  • 4 Dec '18
 Humble Staff

i meant from a comon sense perspective, messers and falchions were designed especifically to butcher lowly armored people, it's slightly top heavier than most swords and all that.
But then again, it's just two points of damage.

Knight 25 47
  • 4 Dec '18
 SerJimmy

Messer has bad animations and 2 htk on t3 head. Those are its only advantages over longsword. However, it has so shit range that makes the weapon pretty bad in team modes.

Count 171 246

Ok so I gave it a better chance and while sometimes you can feel the short reach, it can be deadly if you manage the drags properly. Stab is really trash though. I admit it's not that easy in Mordhau, real proper timing is required. I'm still bad, but it's getting slowly better.

1090 1721

I literally saw the exact same shit it did in Chivalry yesterday from Bang. Bang literally performed an overhead spin drag mid combo...

It may not trade anymore but it still has that perfect accel/drag combination it had in Chivalry and it still packs a huge punch against armor. It might be easily whiffed when used by T3 dude but it can still be dragged for reach and it's extremely dangerous when used by T2 and below.

It can literally start inside you then rewind back and hover just over your parry while you stand there like a retard.

Recruit 11 43
  • 16 Dec '18
 ShrimpEater

shit range
better damage

1090 1721

Actually can we talk about pole-axe blunt side? Why does it have to be shorter and slower... but with faster stabs? What's the logic behind that change when its the same speed/weight... doesn't holding it by the choke make it faster actually? Not like it actually does that much more damage to T3 to justify such disadvantages.

It just makes no sense and it doesn't even two shot T3 unless you get a headshot... Two torso swings just won't cut it and for that you're better off just using the longer, faster side even against T3 for the same HTK. Blunt side is so easy to miss with and it's so short its drags require absolutely perfect execution to simply not miss let alone actually do damage. People fall for a point blank feint but easily run away from the followup attack.

396 453
  • 17 Dec '18
 JasonBourne

nostalgia

Knight 292 904
  • 1
  • 17 Dec '18
 GIRUGIRU

Messer isn't really viable right now, especially not compared to longsword

Easiest buff would be to increase it's range, otherwise all it offers is some decent drags and ok damage - ppl don't run medium torso with any wep at high level so the HTK doesn't make it worth using. It's rare you will land 2 headshots vs a very skilled player

Meanwhile longsword feels great, excellent swing manipulation + range, powerful stab for nice scary morphs. Mordhau grip is the penultimate in dueling technology (minus evening star) with God tier drags, very fast stab and extremely high dmg - can 2htk plate nicely

Mordhau grip by itself is literally better than messer. Also hitstop is very useful for 1vX because you will never need to CFTP therefore you're much less likely to get oustammed unless you fuck up

Count 171 246

@GIRUGIRU said:
Messer isn't really viable right now, especially not compared to longsword

Easiest buff would be to increase it's range, otherwise all it offers is some decent drags and ok damage - ppl don't run medium torso with any wep at high level so the HTK doesn't make it worth using. It's rare you will land 2 headshots vs a very skilled player

Meanwhile longsword feels great, excellent swing manipulation + range, powerful stab for nice scary morphs. Mordhau grip is the penultimate in dueling technology (minus evening star) with God tier drags, very fast stab and extremely high dmg - can 2htk plate nicely

Mordhau grip by itself is literally better than messer. Also hitstop is very useful for 1vX because you will never need to CFTP therefore you're much less likely to get oustammed unless you fuck up

I heavily agree about the range, when using messer I feel pretty much useless in a teamfight. The stabs being very weak, you can feel it when fighting with your team trying to poke opponents. Kinda sad I like the visual design of the weapon. 🤷🏻‍♂️

@JasonBourne said:
nostalgia

Nah I always prefered Archer and MAA. Their voices were perfection for trolling.

2 1
  • 2
  • 30 Aug
 Minsc

Found this thread while trying to understand today's patchie change to Messer:

"Messer strike stamina drain increased by 1"

This is a buff to the Messer, when people parry it, it will cost them a bit more stamina. Affects alt mode but not stabs. So that's nice for Messer fans.

I have a bit of an odd but, I think, relevant to some, opinion about this weapon - I never played Chiv or any of that stuff, only Mordhau, and I'm level 53, so quite a lot of hours, and the last 20 levels I've played 3-3-3 Messer two-handed almost exclusively. When I'm not doing that I like to rock 3-3-3 bloodlust unarmed and loot weapons from the battlefield, which is super fun and I always get a big boner when I find a Messer, it really is my favorite weapon by far.

So, I almost never stab with it, I know that's pretty weak. Of course you have to sometimes just to mix it up or they learn your patterns. I don't know the detailed stats of it well, compared to say the Longsword. But, I can certainly tell you that the Messer is VERY viable. Like anything, if you use it enough and know the weapon well, you can use it well. I'm often in top 5 on the scoreboard. I love the Messer for suicide running into groups, it's nice and unpredictable for 1v1s, it's strong and beautifully weird. I think I really like that people tend to be more enraged when it kills them, and multiple people have said something like "wow I have to be more careful when fighting Messer it's so weird" etc.

If you compare to Longsword, it really is a simple tradeoff of speed and range, pretty much perfectly proportioned. The extra range is nice on the Longsword, but that's traded for speed, and honestly every bit of speed is important to land hits. I sometimes like to play with the Cleaver for the nice damage just because I'm annoyed at how slow most swords are in general. So switching to Longsworrd, you also lose that weird X factor that the Messer brings. It really is a lovely weapon and not a lot of people specialize in it, which makes it that much less predictable if you can learn it. Longswords were pretty popular in the early days and still are, though it seems less so than the Messer. Give it a chance, it's certainly not crippled.

178 165
  • 30 Aug
 Unlikely

"Messer" is German for knife. People began carrying messers where the carrying of a sword in city limits was outlawed. It is the answer to the question, How long can a knife be before we call it a sword?

2 1
  • 30 Aug
 Minsc

@Unlikely said:
"Messer" is German for knife. People began carrying messers where the carrying of a sword in city limits was outlawed. It is the answer to the question, How long can a knife be before we call it a sword?

Yeah that's the other thing I kind of like about the Messer, and I think why it's a bit weird: It feels like carrying a giant knife, not a sword, even when two-handing it.

84 134
  • 30 Aug
 IllOmens

Messer is pretty busted. Expect to see a ton of messer users in high rank 1v1.

Knight 46 67

@Unlikely said:
"Messer" is German for knife. People began carrying messers where the carrying of a sword in city limits was outlawed. It is the answer to the question, How long can a knife be before we call it a sword?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlWvLRxen4s helps dismiss that myth

And the messer can be used with a shield unlike the longsword, which even if players may hate it, does give it another niche as the biggest weapon to use with a shield.