Mordhau

Archery Suggestions

80 31
  • 30 Nov '18
 Xanatelos

No, Im not 12.

Also, Archer damge is not fine. Its terrible.
While I agree with your changes to the Longbow...the shortbow needs more damage.

Arrowhead glint - really? Id say keep it the way it is now. You don't necessarily know if the archer is aiming for you. Seems like a nerf to me.

Crossbow should be longer reload time since its so easy to use.

635 1029

Pretty much any melee based (spear, alt-halberd, shield) support load out will be better for the team than an archer support load out. Hell we've seen 3 firepot plus brawler perk loadouts do better than dedicated archers.

Archers are below everything in terms of damage output/cost ratio. Those annoying builder load outs are the only players that do worse.

I think Crossbows in a good spot and shortbow should not get any buffs. Both fit the roles of short range archer-> melee perfectly...

But why should Longbow be so gimped given its cost? Its like you need multiple really good longbow archers to bring down any one. You can argue that projectiles should not bother plate very much but Longbow should definitely be terrorizing everything less than plate... if not plate too.

Again, archers are currently the most dangerous when they switch to melee. Don't even get me started on how over powered the cleaver is.

Knight 3178 6391
  • 1
  • 30 Nov '18
 Bodkin

Glint and louder shots are not really nerfs. They're just something to make things more fair.

The problem most people have with archers is that they feel they are unfair

Most people try to attack this issue by saying they need shit damage. All that would do is make archer only viable as a team wide strategy of full archer teams, which is cancer no matter how bad you make archer damage unless it's essentially 0 like many people want.

The best way to attack the issue is to remove all possibility of people complaining shit is unfair without adding in gayass teleports and shit. One way to do this is to give visual and audio queues that archer damage is incoming. Like say you see the glint, you can quickly reposition yourself where the guy you are fighting is blocking the archer's shot. Say you are currently being shot at by an archer, if you are very good at reaction times you could use the bow shot sound to parry. The archer can try and wait for a panic like he can now.

The idea is shit becomes slightly more fair without nerfing archer into the ground.

Recurve doesn't need a damage buff. The beauty of it is that it completely shuts down enemy archers while doing pretty good consistent dmg to enemy melee if you use its speed accurately enough. Obviously if you only hit 1 in 3 arrows all bows are going to be poo. The power in mordhsu archers lies in landing consistent hits and winning the melee for your team before it even starts sometimes

The only reasonable damage buff I could see for recurve would be for it to be 20dmg plate torso instead of 15.

Knight 3178 6391
  • 1 Dec '18
 Bodkin

hmm lol

lele.PNG

Mercenary 2072 3648
  • 1 Dec '18
 EruTheTeapot

Unless thats a shitpost, fuck that

Even though I love the archery concept in games, right now one in Mordhau isn't welcoming now that I think of it.

You got shit damage, you got shit targeting "sway" which is stupid idea in its own, you are pretty much a mosquito who annoys others only to get 1 shotted anyway.

Archery doesn't need buffs or nerfs, it needs rework before launch imho.

Knight 3178 6391
  • 3
  • 1 Dec '18
 Bodkin

idk man rn archers are pretty powerful, at least longbow and crossbow are, but your description will be very accurate if they don't make the bows cheaper along with this nerf. I don't use recurve so I can't comment for it.

Like making bows weaker to heavy is fine so long as the archer isn't gimped in both melee and ranged against them.

Might as well make the bows cheaper if you want them to be more situational, so the bow functions more as a secondary than as a primary and the archer can bring better melee equipment to do decent damage to armoured enemies and use his bow to harass and kill different classes.

Only issue with this is most people use heavy plate meta anyway, so I don't see archer being all that useful anymore unless they make it cheap enough where you can be a chiv-style MAA who just has a bow on his back for specific applications like the ones theyll be limited to with this nerf

Mercenary 2072 3648
  • 1 Dec '18
 EruTheTeapot

I mean there is no point in taking a 12 Point Bow to NOT deal damage to nearly all the people out there If t3 were to be immune.

I don't feel powerful when playing archer builds if I'm honest. I feel more like I want to enjoy archery but feels like I'm just crippling myself to play Mordy

65 113
  • 1 Dec '18
 conny

Oh god i hope plate does become immune to archers, then archer might actually require some skill

Knight 3178 6391
  • 1 Dec '18
 Bodkin

lmao how can skill overcome 0 dmg, and how does it take skill to pick heavy when making a loadout lmoa

Jesus Christ

65 113
  • 1 Dec '18
 conny

Why should ranged weapons be unstoppable in every situation ? Sure if heavy ranged does a small amount at very close range but archery right now is just a plague to all skilled players on the field, t3 would then more or less force melee to solve the problem, sounds great

Knight 640 1718
  • 1 Dec '18
 ÐMontyleGueux

@Bodkin said:
hmm lol

lele.PNG

It's already pretty much the case tho. It's pretty rare to land 3-4 shots to kill a plate armor wearing player before he can cover and heal. While any other armor tier get shredded by archery.
This change would just make sure archery is useless, because 90% or more of players already wear heavy on at least the torso.

Imo we just need more defined roles for both bows. The recurve needs to be low cost, low damage and high rate of fire, while the longbow needs to be really low rate of fire (or rather accurate rate of fire), high projectile speed and decent damage.
I'm still sure removing the crosshair for archery would cause archers to hit less often and make it more skill based.

Knight 3178 6391
  • 2
  • 1 Dec '18
 Bodkin

@conny said:
Why should ranged weapons be unstoppable in every situation ? Sure if heavy ranged does a small amount at very close range but archery right now is just a plague to all skilled players on the field, t3 would then more or less force melee to solve the problem, sounds great

I am aware that archers are OP right now.

I think the issue lies more in ease of use and lack of interactivity moreso than damage, though certain aspects of the damage need a nerf like I have already presented.

I think problem #1 is that people can't tell when they are about to be shot in hectic fights, hence why I asked for a reliable visual and audio queue. Just the glint is huge because you can see that and move yourself where the enemy you are fighting is in between you and the archer, nullifying the threat. The louder bowshots would allow people to use it to reactively parry much more easily. The idea here is to make shot more fair rather than just making things all rock paper scissors where there are much more rocks than paper or scissors.

The problem with just buffing heavy against it is that everyone uses the shit already. The only qualifier here is if crush meant you had to be full 333 heavy instead of just heavy armour pieces in general, because almost everyone at least has t3 torso. Making it a passive bonus for 333 full set makes sense and would be a lot more fair than just you brought a torso piece and now you are almost immune unless they are very good at landing headshots consistently, which mind you is not something I have to worry about when I do spear support or just use throwables.

Regardless I have already said the nerf is fine so long as archer weapons become cheaper where they aren't gimped in melee anymore and they just use the bow in certain situations. If this is not the case then archers are now gimped in both ranged and melee and essentially are removed from the game without actually being removed

Conscript 158 388
  • 2 Dec '18
 Shovonem

@Bodkin said:
Glint and louder shots are not really nerfs. They're just something to make things more fair.

The best way to attack the issue is to remove all possibility of people complaining shit is unfair without adding in gayass teleports and shit. One way to do this is to give visual and audio queues that archer damage is incoming. Like say you see the glint, you can quickly reposition yourself where the guy you are fighting is blocking the archer's shot. Say you are currently being shot at by an archer, if you are very good at reaction times you could use the bow shot sound to parry. The archer can try and wait for a panic like he can now.

I completely agree with that. The biggest problem with archers is that there is not enough counterplay. Another problem is how ez it is to pick up compare to the complex melee mechanic. Giving ways to deal with archers is good.. I personally also think archery should be harder to play. Not by adjusting sway but also other ways. If an Archer master the mechanics for 1k hours like melee players and owns his melee opponents with superior skill that is fair. Sadly that's not the case. Even new players can pick up a bow and kill top tier players. Melee players can't do much about it since they also have other melee players to deal with while archer is shooting.

65 113
  • 2 Dec '18
 conny

More sway paterns/somewhat random with visual indication in first person animation replacing the crosshair+staminadrain on draw, done deal. That would atleast require some practice to be useful with,

Conscript 158 388
  • 1
  • 3 Dec '18
 Shovonem

@conny said:
More sway paterns/somewhat random with visual indication in first person animation replacing the crosshair+staminadrain on draw, done deal. That would atleast require some practice to be useful with,

Solid idea. The first thing that comes to my mind is directional sway pattern. Just like we have 6 directional strikes(the current crosshair for melee) we could have that for archery. For each direction there is a sway pattern so 6 different sway patterns. So let's say you're holding your bow and your crosshair is on right direction. If you master the sway pattern for that direction you would know what to do. As soon as you start drawing your bow, crosshair disappears. After you shoot, the crosshair randomly lean to a another side among the other 5. Or it could also have a sequence for more consistency but being random is not a problem. Because you'd see the crosshair and know which sway pattern is gonna be next before you even start drawing the bow so it won't have bullshit RNG effect when a good archer is trying to land shots.

As Izil suggested draw time could also be really good. Arrow speed and distance based on how much bow is drawn.

65 113
  • 3 Dec '18
 conny

What i meant is that the actual bow and arrow would work as a reference to where your invisible crosshair would be, might be a challenge to implement but i think that would be a good feature, hard to master and satisfying af, just react to the bows movement during draw, i would not call that rng

Duke 5384 12318
  • 3 Dec '18
 Jax — Community Manager

@conny said:
What i meant is that the actual bow and arrow would work as a reference to where your invisible crosshair would be, might be a challenge to implement but i think that would be a good feature, hard to master and satisfying af, just react to the bows movement during draw, i would not call that rng

already a thing

Knight 640 1718
  • 3 Dec '18
 ÐMontyleGueux

@Jax said:

@conny said:
What i meant is that the actual bow and arrow would work as a reference to where your invisible crosshair would be, might be a challenge to implement but i think that would be a good feature, hard to master and satisfying af, just react to the bows movement during draw, i would not call that rng

already a thing

I think he meant that the crosshair should be invisible and players should have to aim with the arrow tip like in rust for instance.

65 113
  • 1
  • 3 Dec '18
 conny

@ÐMontyleGueux said:
I think he meant that the crosshair should be invisible and players should have to aim with the arrow tip like in rust for instance.

Yes but the aim shouldnt be exactly on the arrow, then we still have a crosshair. Witch will always make it too easy.
Side note, showed a friend a trix video. He was super excited that there werent no crosshair and that it would be hard to use bow and arrow, imagine the let down. I mean he is a casual gamer but liked the idea of a fair challenge

Mercenary 2072 3648
  • 3 Dec '18
 EruTheTeapot

More sway ? Fuck that, I already feel retarded while aiming.
There should be a better way to make Archery more skillful than adding retarded mechanics.