Mordhau

Will there be a kick vote system like Chiv

324 864
  • 28 Nov '18
 Xatrian

Then instead of an actual automated kick, perhaps make it so that you can't vote to kick someone unless they are above a certain threshold of team damage?

Knight 38 34
  • 28 Nov '18
 saul_g00dman

@Xatrian said:

@saul_g00dman said:

@Hadeus said:
Abuse & injustice will always exist, even with a voting system.

That being said; There SHOULD be a voting system.
Furthermore, to combat vote kick injustice, there should be an admin cancelvote command.

Its really all at the administrators discretion tbh.
This form of sever governing is the best way to do it.

You will find abusive server admins and you will find the benevolent ones.
The former tends to stick around for a long time and have a larger community.

No, admins should not be able to override the votekick. This is because terrible admins like you, excuse me, Minimum Wage, who team kill with firepots will easily abuse that and already have.

It's their server. If you don't like it, you can go somewhere else.

I actually can't, since it is the only server with people on it most days.

Knight 685 1853
  • 28 Nov '18
 ÐMontyleGueux

@saul_g00dman said:

@Xatrian said:

@saul_g00dman said:

@Hadeus said:
Abuse & injustice will always exist, even with a voting system.

That being said; There SHOULD be a voting system.
Furthermore, to combat vote kick injustice, there should be an admin cancelvote command.

Its really all at the administrators discretion tbh.
This form of sever governing is the best way to do it.

You will find abusive server admins and you will find the benevolent ones.
The former tends to stick around for a long time and have a larger community.

No, admins should not be able to override the votekick. This is because terrible admins like you, excuse me, Minimum Wage, who team kill with firepots will easily abuse that and already have.

It's their server. If you don't like it, you can go somewhere else.

I actually can't, since it is the only server with people on it most days.

Doesn't matter. He's paying for the server, you're not. So he should have the right to do whatever he wants with it.

324 864
  • 28 Nov '18
 Xatrian

@saul_g00dman said:

@Xatrian said:

@saul_g00dman said:

@Hadeus said:
Abuse & injustice will always exist, even with a voting system.

That being said; There SHOULD be a voting system.
Furthermore, to combat vote kick injustice, there should be an admin cancelvote command.

Its really all at the administrators discretion tbh.
This form of sever governing is the best way to do it.

You will find abusive server admins and you will find the benevolent ones.
The former tends to stick around for a long time and have a larger community.

No, admins should not be able to override the votekick. This is because terrible admins like you, excuse me, Minimum Wage, who team kill with firepots will easily abuse that and already have.

It's their server. If you don't like it, you can go somewhere else.

I actually can't, since it is the only server with people on it most days.

That implies that everyone else doesn't care as much as you do about this issue, and that you should suck it up.

If enough of you cared about how "bad" the administration was, you'd all get up and go someplace else.

Knight 928 2545
  • 28 Nov '18
 Pred

@ÐMontyleGueux said:
I'm speaking out of experience here, it's a thing in csgo. Two of your team decides to ruin your fun, you throw an incendiary to defend your position, the two dumbasses rush into it and boom you're banned 30 minutes or more.

In mordhau, the firepot is an area denial tool. Someone is likely to use them to defend or attack an objective in frontline. It would be annoying if you can't even use them because people would throw themselves in it on purpose to get you kicked.

The problem is that both firepot itself and counting firepot damage could be misused for trolling but the firepot itself has a much higher trolling potential, whereas what you describe should be a marginal occurrence.

It's virtually the same issue as with votekick - you implement votekick and risk that occasionally an innocent player will be kicked for the greater gain of being able to get rid of trolls. Here we would accept that sometimes a rare person that is dedicated enough and retarded enough will jump into your firepot to raise your TD but in return we make misuse of the #1 trolling tool punishable.

Knight 3139 7327
  • 28 Nov '18
 Punzybobo

@Hadeus said:

@saul_g00dman said:

@Hadeus said:
The fact of the matter is this:

Anything in the game will be abused by certain individuals at some point. How do we mitigate that?

The best way is through diligence of [good] server administrators.

Back in Chivalry - If there was a bulls*it vote taking place against an innocent player; I would just >admincancelvote them.

~90 percent of the time in Chivalry, the votes on people TKing were legitimate and served their purpose.

Vote system > automation > no system at all.

No you wouldn't. You would kick them yourself because you're such a terrible admin.

Ah yes, I'm a terrible admin for continuing to let you play on a community server despite your continual history of salty rdms on people during duels. I've never liked you, yet I don't ban you. I'm such a bad admin.

I hope you're not projecting here Mr-gets-revenge-for-TK-from-20-rounds-ago

Count 449 1186
  • 28 Nov '18
 Hadeus

Keyword: Continual
In case you couldn't read.

127 137
  • 29 Nov '18
 The Bird

@Hadeus said:
Please no automaton.

People that are complaining about how votekick system will get abused....
Do you have any idea how automation would get abused?

Let me provide you an example:

If X amount of team damage (or kills) == automatic kick.
We will start seeing naked people running in front of swings to troll you (i.e. kick you from the server).

Keep it simple Triternion. Votekick system and votechangemap.


This is very true. Maybe create something like a vote kick feature but require something like 75% of the votes in favor? People would most certainly abuse an automated feature, probably as much as any vote kick. Personally I'd rather take my chances with the votes

Duke 5538 13214
  • 29 Nov '18
 Jax — Community Manager

We could do a combination

automation + player voting

if you go above x amount of team/enemy damage ratio or have a high enough ping you can be player voted out of a match with a 55% or higher

if you don't have that it would take like 80% or so

Knight 928 2545
  • 29 Nov '18
 Pred

@Jax said:
We could do a combination

automation + player voting

if you go above x amount of team/enemy damage ratio or have a high enough ping you can be player voted out of a match with a 55% or higher

if you don't have that it would take like 80% or so

Yes please - autokick in the most clear-cut cases and leave vote for the players for the rest.

This is a thing that can be tested on paper to an extent, so you can even tell us your ideas on the forums and we will try to come up with ways to abuse it.

Knight 253 546
  • 29 Nov '18
 Gauntlet

The problem with automation is it's really exploitable. You can force a player to cause team damage by standing in front of them or by suiciding in their firepots. Or a good player can avoid this system by killing plenty of enemies, then firebomb the spawn a couple of times and still be at less than 20% damage done. Trolling and griefing can also take many forms outside of damage done to friendlies. Goading players by kicking them off of things consistently, blocking passages, smoke bombing spawn, firebombing the objective so no one can complete it. I haven't even touched on the kind of chaos a dedicated team of builders w/ blacksmith perk can cause. I think the best system is one that Insurgency uses and I've posted about before so I'll repost it here as well. It does not rely on automation, though can be augmented by it to better suit the needs of the game. I agree with Hadeus that the best system involves admin controls and proper implementation of a votekick system.

Votekick should exist but it can be implemented much better than in Chivalry.
Example: In Insurgency if someone calls a votekick, it requires multiple people to go through the menu and try to votekick said person before it shows up on everyone's screen for a vote. Usually requires at least 3 or 4 people to initiate. This removes all of the rage votekicks people will put up on one accidental tk. It won't stop groups of players from abusing that though.

There are Chiv servers that have votekick disabled. I avoid these servers because they become home to the players who like to tk, or for hackers because no one can remove them. No votekick requires constant admins to be online, which isn't a realistic goal.

45 52
  • 30 Nov '18
 Cow

A smart karma system, like that everybody can see your karma if i's negative karma auto kick you or ban for 20 minutes if too much tk in a short periode of time. Well we need to take care cause sometimes you can do a double tk with a mad swing so the threshold should be 3 tks per round for the temp ban in my opinion.

Knight 685 1853
  • 30 Nov '18
 ÐMontyleGueux

@Cow said:
A smart karma system, like that everybody can see your karma if i's negative karma auto kick you or ban for 20 minutes if too much tk in a short periode of time. Well we need to take care cause sometimes you can do a double tk with a mad swing so the threshold should be 3 tks per round for the temp ban in my opinion.

A system that saves your good/bad deeds between play sessions is surely interesting.

For instance voting yes to kick someone with high ping/packetloss/tk could reward with positive karma (a lot of people in chivalry simply refused to kick people over 200 ping despite them being cancer to deal with). Scoring objective points and finishing a round of frontline could reward with good karma as well to reward good behaviors.

Getting voted out with too much ping/packetloss/tk would lower your karma, as well as leaving ranked games before the end.

Of course there need to be a positive and negative limit so you can't farm karma for hours then troll.

The votekick system could take it into account, good karma players would require more positive votes to get kicked while bad karma players would require less.

In that case, a player who only wants to play peacefully and just enjoy the game will never have his TD, ping or packetloss over a certain threshold.
A player who maliciously exploit his bad connection and regularly play with a terrible ping would regularly get vote kicked with high ping by other players thus requiring less votes to get kicked again.
Same goes for high teamdamage.

Knight 3311 6797
  • 30 Nov '18
 Bodkin

Tbh Hadeus we are badmins for letting the firepot reckoning go down but it was just too god damned funny

Count 449 1186
  • 30 Nov '18
 Hadeus

I was dying of laughter, but we can't let that happen again :^)

80 31
  • 30 Nov '18
 Xanatelos

This community is rampant with bad admins. Seriously needs to be automated if these elitist clans are gonna ruin the fun for everyone.

324 864
  • 30 Nov '18
 Xatrian

@Xanatelos said:
This community is rampant with bad admins. Seriously needs to be automated if these elitist clans are gonna ruin the fun for everyone.

It's their server. Go somewhere else.

80 31
  • 30 Nov '18
 Xanatelos

Dude, are you seriously sticking up for these tards?

324 864
  • 30 Nov '18
 Xatrian

@Xanatelos said:
Dude, are you seriously sticking up for these tards?

Are you incapable of grasping the difference between sticking up for individuals and sticking up for the principle of private control of servers?

If enough people playing on these servers think the admins are doing a bad job, it is literally as simple as going to a different server. If you don't want to do that, then that's your own problem.

Knight 3139 7327
  • 30 Nov '18
 Punzybobo

Implying the masses are smart enough to make free market capitalism work