Mordhau

Will there be a kick vote system like Chiv

Knight 675 2710
  • 27 Nov '18
 Mittsies

Votekick can and will be abused: a lot. If it's anything like Chivalry, the votekick system will be nothing more than a griefing tool: especially if it pops up and blocks part of my screen while I'm trying to fucking play the game. God I hated that.

Knight 12 22
  • 1
  • 27 Nov '18
 Gluten

Just add some limitations, like locking votekick until there are 10 (just an example) players in the server, to prevent server hijacking. Only exception should be serial teamkillers, if you had done more than 300 team damage in one match, then you can get votekicked / autokicked.

What other reasons are to kick players? People interrupting duels? This can be solved with something like a dueling system à la M&B (both have to accept the duel before being able to damage each other, interruptors get teleported), or when matchmaking comes (although I really like FFA duels).

Knight 770 2052
  • 3
  • 27 Nov '18
 Pred

Issues and perceived issues with vote kick in Chiv and some problems it should try to address:

Potential server hijacking

Solution: Non-issue on bigger servers. Never experienced it anywhere tbh, but for smaller servers I guess it's better to let a rare hijack rather than implement a threshold which would allow trolls to do whatever they want on less populated ones.

Brigading and kicking people you don't like for nothing

Solution: it rarely ever happens, so just live with it and go somewhere else on the rare occasion it does. I think despite 10-20 attempts, I was successfully kicked just once in 1500 hours just because someone didn't like me, and it was right after a sale, so noobs voting yes probably didn't know what they were doing.

People not voting yes to kick obvious trolls and team killers

Solution: Show TD as it would be with 100% TD enabled. Chivalry showed the percentage after accounting for 50% TD, so people didn't realize that 33% TD meant that you hit a teammate once for every time you hit an enemy. Need to indicate to people which TK levels are still acceptable and which are not by some visual cue.

Firepots, catapults, fall damage etc. not being counted against your TD often made it very hard to kick trolls who went unnoticed by the enemy team.

Solution: obvious solution.

Don't know if devs are planning for the role of "king" as in Chiv, but TKing your king happened in Chivalry and since it was always the end of the round, it usually went unpunished.

Players have to do all the policing by themselves when admin is not around, resulting in "annoying" votes constantly popping up.

Solution: there should be a number of easy solutions to autokick or temporarily lock out a troll:

  • Throwing a firepot in your own spawn should never happen.
  • Landing, say, 4 hits in a row on teammates is almost impossible to do by accident.
  • Having a high TD% after a certain damage threshold (so you don't get autokicked right after you join and hit a teammate by accident).
Duke 5384 12318
  • 27 Nov '18
 Jax — Community Manager

I think the best way forward is automation

have a post-match vote system for the next map (configurable in server settings too) like Insurgency Sandstorm or Halo has will make server map rotation nice

and autokick for being a dumbass

Knight 640 1718
  • 1
  • 27 Nov '18
 ÐMontyleGueux

@Pred said:
Issues and perceived issues with vote kick in Chiv and some problems it should try to address:

Potential server hijacking

Solution: Non-issue on bigger servers. Never experienced it anywhere tbh, but for smaller servers I guess it's better to let a rare hijack rather than implement a threshold which would allow trolls to do whatever they want on less populated ones.

I agree with this. In chivalry hijacking only worked on servers without any active admins. If you keep people from joining for too long you're eventually going to run into someone who know the admin and get kicked/banned for it.

And even then, you can always go on a different server unless the whole playerbase is on it and exclusively locking you out.

Brigading and kicking people you don't like for nothing

Solution: it rarely ever happens.

I'm going to stop you right there. One good example I have is a friend of mine who regularly gets kicked out even today for being good at the game. It came as far as being kicked 7 times in a row, locking him out of the game, despite the fact that he never said anything in the chat, troll or whatever and basically just tried to play.

People not voting yes to kick obvious trolls and team killers

Solution: Show TD as it would be with 100% TD enabled. Chivalry showed the percentage after accounting for 50% TD, so people didn't realize that 33% TD meant that you hit a teammate once for every time you hit an enemy. Need to indicate to people which TK levels are still acceptable and which are not by some visual cue.

I agree with this but there need to be some sort of threshold. In chivalry you could easily get rid of someone by just blocking his way out of spawn at the beginning of a game, bait him to kick you out of the way and then call a vote while he still has 100%.

Firepots, catapults, fall damage etc. not being counted against your TD often made it very hard to kick trolls who went unnoticed by the enemy team.

Except people can intentionally get into your firepots and catapult shots to raise your teamdamage. What kind of severely autistic people would do that you may ask ? Well it's already an issue on csgo, chances are it will happen in mordhau as well.

This is also a response to @Gluten as well. If some troll want you out of the server, he can just keep going in your attacks, either preventing you to play or causing you to get autokicked for teamdamage if such a system would be in place. And yes it's also happening in csgo where too much damage gets you autokicked out of a competitive match and players can successfully get you temp banned if they want to.

Solution: obvious solution.

Don't know if devs are planning for the role of "king" as in Chiv, but TKing your king happened in Chivalry and since it was always the end of the round, it usually went unpunished.

Players have to do all the policing by themselves when admin is not around, resulting in "annoying" votes constantly popping up.

Solution: there should be a number of easy solutions to autokick or temporarily lock out a troll:

  • Throwing a firepot in your own spawn should never happen.
  • Landing, say, 4 hits in a row on teammates is almost impossible to do by accident.
  • Having a high TD% after a certain damage threshold (so you don't get autokicked right after you join and hit a teammate by accident).

As I said, any automated solution is very easy to exploit. That said, the no fire in spawn idea would work. In csgo killing a teammate in the very first few seconds of a round is an immediate ban because it obviously can't be an accident. Something such as too much teamdamage on players who are in the spawn could result in an autokick, since it can't be exploited.

Count 439 1172
  • 1
  • 27 Nov '18
 Hadeus

Please no automaton.

People that are complaining about how votekick system will get abused....
Do you have any idea how automation would get abused?

Let me provide you an example:

If X amount of team damage (or kills) == automatic kick.
We will start seeing naked people running in front of swings to troll you (i.e. kick you from the server).

Keep it simple Triternion. Votekick system and votechangemap.


Count 439 1172
  • 1
  • 27 Nov '18
 Hadeus

The fact of the matter is this:

Anything in the game will be abused by certain individuals at some point. How do we mitigate that?

The best way is through diligence of [good] server administrators.

Back in Chivalry - If there was a bulls*it vote taking place against an innocent player; I would just >admincancelvote them.

~90 percent of the time in Chivalry, the votes on people TKing were legitimate and served their purpose.

Vote system > automation > no system at all.

Knight 770 2052
  • 1
  • 27 Nov '18
 Pred

@ÐMontyleGueux said:
I'm going to stop you right there. One good example I have is a friend of mine who regularly gets kicked out even today for being good at the game. It came as far as being kicked 7 times in a row, locking him out of the game, despite the fact that he never said anything in the chat, troll or whatever and basically just tried to play.

Maybe he plays different modes than I did or maybe now it's different as Chiv seems to be on it's last legs player-count wise, dunno. I used to play TO in the evenings with mostly other veterans and it almost never happened to me or others except some rare post-sale occurrences when there was an abundance of noobs. When it happened others would usually let everyone know in chat as well.

@ÐMontyleGueux said:
Except people can intentionally get into your firepots and catapult shots to raise your teamdamage.

They can just as well run into your attacks if they want to do that, so I don't see how it would be any different than measuring melee-inflicted TD.

Knight 640 1718
  • 27 Nov '18
 ÐMontyleGueux

@Pred said:

@ÐMontyleGueux said:
I'm going to stop you right there. One good example I have is a friend of mine who regularly gets kicked out even today for being good at the game. It came as far as being kicked 7 times in a row, locking him out of the game, despite the fact that he never said anything in the chat, troll or whatever and basically just tried to play.

Maybe he plays different modes than I did or maybe now it's different as Chiv seems to be on it's last legs player-count wise, dunno. I used to play TO in the evenings with mostly other veterans and it almost never happened to me or others except some rare post-sale occurrences when there was an abundance of noobs. When it happened others would usually let everyone know in chat as well.

That happen mostly in FFA because everyone have to face you at some point and there's much more chance that most of the server hates on the top player. In team modes, only the enemy team would hate you to be good at the game.

@ÐMontyleGueux said:
Except people can intentionally get into your firepots and catapult shots to raise your teamdamage.

They can just as well run into your attacks if they want to do that, so I don't see how it would be any different than measuring melee-inflicted TD.

Because you can aim or cancel an attack, but you can't cancel a firepot. As soon as you throw a firepot, it's free real estate for trolls to give you a huge amount of teamdamage and you can't stop them from doing that. Especially since it deals a lot of damage, all you need to have is a few friends to jump into the fire with you and boom your target went from 5% to 30% TD in a few seconds.

Knight 34 26
  • 1
  • 27 Nov '18
 saul_g00dman

@Hadeus said:
Abuse & injustice will always exist, even with a voting system.

That being said; There SHOULD be a voting system.
Furthermore, to combat vote kick injustice, there should be an admin cancelvote command.

Its really all at the administrators discretion tbh.
This form of sever governing is the best way to do it.

You will find abusive server admins and you will find the benevolent ones.
The former tends to stick around for a long time and have a larger community.

No, admins should not be able to override the votekick. This is because terrible admins like you, excuse me, Minimum Wage, who team kill with firepots will easily abuse that and already have.

Knight 34 26
  • 27 Nov '18
 saul_g00dman

@Hadeus said:
The fact of the matter is this:

Anything in the game will be abused by certain individuals at some point. How do we mitigate that?

The best way is through diligence of [good] server administrators.

Back in Chivalry - If there was a bulls*it vote taking place against an innocent player; I would just >admincancelvote them.

~90 percent of the time in Chivalry, the votes on people TKing were legitimate and served their purpose.

Vote system > automation > no system at all.

No you wouldn't. You would kick them yourself because you're such a terrible admin.

Knight 116 189
  • 3
  • 27 Nov '18
 Q

The most annoying thing about the vote-kick in Chiv is that the box takes up half of the left side of the screen. When people spam vote-kick it is really off-putting. The box should be non obtrusive.

In the vote-kick pop-up box, packet-loss should be displayed, along with ping & team damage. As packet-loss is just as important/relevant.

Not sold on automation. Probably brings up more issues than it solves. Basically just a computer algorithm acting as judge, jury & executioner. Too prone to false positives.

Count 439 1172
  • 2
  • 27 Nov '18
 Hadeus

@saul_g00dman said:

@Hadeus said:
The fact of the matter is this:

Anything in the game will be abused by certain individuals at some point. How do we mitigate that?

The best way is through diligence of [good] server administrators.

Back in Chivalry - If there was a bulls*it vote taking place against an innocent player; I would just >admincancelvote them.

~90 percent of the time in Chivalry, the votes on people TKing were legitimate and served their purpose.

Vote system > automation > no system at all.

No you wouldn't. You would kick them yourself because you're such a terrible admin.

Ah yes, I'm a terrible admin for continuing to let you play on a community server despite your continual history of salty rdms on people during duels. I've never liked you, yet I don't ban you. I'm such a bad admin.

Knight 770 2052
  • 1
  • 27 Nov '18
 Pred

@ÐMontyleGueux said:
That happen mostly in FFA

Yeah, that kind of explains everything.

@ÐMontyleGueux said:
Because you can aim or cancel an attack, but you can't cancel a firepot. As soon as you throw a firepot, it's free real estate for trolls to give you a huge amount of teamdamage and you can't stop them from doing that. Especially since it deals a lot of damage, all you need to have is a few friends to jump into the fire with you and boom your target went from 5% to 30% TD in a few seconds.

Sounds nitpicky. How feasible it is for this to become a common occurence so it would offset benefits of having at least some control over the number 1 trolling tool in the game? In Chiv it dealt much less damage and you could immediately tell who threw it at you because only MAAs had access to it. Here it deals a shit ton of damage and you might not even be able to tell who has it.

If I was very dedicated to trolling someone I could just run in front of him forever so he can't hit anyone, running around the map waiting for you to throw a firepot and do it close enough so I can reach it in time would probably get boring fast, especially when I can't force you to throw it, so I'm just wasting time if you don't do it.

635 1029

Chivalry on console had a post match vote to determine the next map, I was a fan of this. I'm not really a fan of automated kicking unless its chat spam or an absurd amount of team damage.

I'd much rather have the vote kick with a non-obtrusive display.

Count 439 1172
  • 27 Nov '18
 Hadeus

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
Chivalry on console had a post match vote to determine the next map, I was a fan of this. I'm not really a fan of automated kicking unless its chat spam or an absurd amount of team damage.

I'd much rather have the vote kick with a non-obtrusive display.

Yea, an automated post match vote would be fine!
I just don't want automated kicking. That opens another the pandora's box of of intentionally trying to get killed by someone.

322 801
  • 27 Nov '18
 Xatrian

@Jax said:
I think the best way forward is automation

have a post-match vote system for the next map (configurable in server settings too) like Insurgency Sandstorm or Halo has will make server map rotation nice

and autokick for being a dumbass

This. Have an auto-kick based on how much team damage someone does. If it goes above a certain threshold, they get kicked. Similar thing for ping, if their ping goes above a certain threshold for a certain amount of time, they get kicked. For behavior-related kicks, leave it up to the admins of the server.

635 1029

Ping in Mordhau is only really a negative for the player as opposed to the players. If Qing from China wants to hop on with his American friends at 900 ping, let him I say.

If he's causing problems through ping then let the players kick him with vote kick.

322 801
  • 28 Nov '18
 Xatrian

@saul_g00dman said:

@Hadeus said:
Abuse & injustice will always exist, even with a voting system.

That being said; There SHOULD be a voting system.
Furthermore, to combat vote kick injustice, there should be an admin cancelvote command.

Its really all at the administrators discretion tbh.
This form of sever governing is the best way to do it.

You will find abusive server admins and you will find the benevolent ones.
The former tends to stick around for a long time and have a larger community.

No, admins should not be able to override the votekick. This is because terrible admins like you, excuse me, Minimum Wage, who team kill with firepots will easily abuse that and already have.

It's their server. If you don't like it, you can go somewhere else.

Knight 640 1718
  • 28 Nov '18
 ÐMontyleGueux

@Pred said:

@ÐMontyleGueux said:
That happen mostly in FFA

Yeah, that kind of explains everything.

@ÐMontyleGueux said:
Because you can aim or cancel an attack, but you can't cancel a firepot. As soon as you throw a firepot, it's free real estate for trolls to give you a huge amount of teamdamage and you can't stop them from doing that. Especially since it deals a lot of damage, all you need to have is a few friends to jump into the fire with you and boom your target went from 5% to 30% TD in a few seconds.

Sounds nitpicky. How feasible it is for this to become a common occurence so it would offset benefits of having at least some control over the number 1 trolling tool in the game? In Chiv it dealt much less damage and you could immediately tell who threw it at you because only MAAs had access to it. Here it deals a shit ton of damage and you might not even be able to tell who has it.

If I was very dedicated to trolling someone I could just run in front of him forever so he can't hit anyone, running around the map waiting for you to throw a firepot and do it close enough so I can reach it in time would probably get boring fast, especially when I can't force you to throw it, so I'm just wasting time if you don't do it.

I'm speaking out of experience here, it's a thing in csgo. Two of your team decides to ruin your fun, you throw an incendiary to defend your position, the two dumbasses rush into it and boom you're banned 30 minutes or more.

In mordhau, the firepot is an area denial tool. Someone is likely to use them to defend or attack an objective in frontline. It would be annoying if you can't even use them because people would throw themselves in it on purpose to get you kicked.