Mordhau

Trade or Active Parry

Count 449 1186
  • 10 Nov '18
 Hadeus

Active Parry.

Trades lead to an even more degenerate maul hit-trade playstyle...

Which I am not a fan of personally, but to each their own.

Knight 685 1852
  • 10 Nov '18
 ÐMontyleGueux

@Frise said:

@Void said:
but the thing is that clashes don't happen so often to have a meaningful impact in 1vX.

I mean if while you have Active Parry, your weapon clashes with any other weapon except it doesn't stop, regardless of the phase your attack is currently in. This would make it so that you'd have to position your attack properly to get the benefits of active parry.

I would be on board with this since it would get rid of the "getting magically parried" aspect of AP.

Knight 3295 6739
  • 1
  • 11 Nov '18
 Bodkin

The main good thing about AP was that it let you survive at low HP or with lighter armour loadouts a lot better. Light Armour / Ratting was definitely a LOT more viable at that stage of the game.

That being said trades probably make more sense overall.

I personally think that instead of the hyper armour damage reduction being a flat value for all hits (currently 66%) that it should be tailored for each armour tier. So like naked would have a higher damage reduction where it doesn't still die in 2 trades, etc.

Idk how well that idea would work but it seems to be the best implementation if we want lighter armour to be able to 1vX reliably. Currently trades just promote heavier loadouts in general.

The only way to make AP work well imho is to have both trades and AP and make active parry only work if you hit their weapon hitbox when they riposte. So instead of being able to clash ripostes, it would cause AP if you hit their weapon. So this way you could AP at someone but it wouldn't cause the shitty looking butt parries that came with the old system. Hits that don't hit the weapon hitbox would simply trade like right now. Implement the 300ms parry lockout thing to those who get AP'd as well to prevent the auto-parry botting that people would do with the old AP and you're all good.

Knight 1269 3804
  • 11 Nov '18
 Frise

Actually Bodkin makes a good point, why not have both? Trades still there, so 1vX is still consistent, but now you'd also have the option to position your attack to make use of AP by batting other weapons away. Would add a whole new dimension to 1vX and teamplay. Imagine you riposte off someone, and turn around to defend a teammate by batting their attacker's weapon away.

396 453
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  • 11 Nov '18
 JasonBourne

Both AP and hyperarmor lol why not add 1hk ontop of it too. When u catch a parry u get AP, hyperarmor and u kill ur enemy in the first hit. awsome

396 453
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  • 11 Nov '18
 JasonBourne

fgshdgf

76 153
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  • 11 Nov '18
 intTobey

@JasonBourne said:
Both AP and hyperarmor lol why not add 1hk ontop of it too. When u catch a parry u get AP, hyperarmor and u kill ur enemy in the first hit. awsome

I see your point, but they could just reduce or remove the damage reduction during riposte. Then trades wouldn't be desirable and players would want to use the active whatever to prevent trades.

But to add to the discussion - I doubt batting weapons away with a clash mechanic would be very effective, at least not if the clash hitboxes are the same as they are for regular clash. It can be kinda hard to get the timing right to connect with a weapon when you want to. Also, such a mechanic wouldn't work well with thrust weapons. The thrust would be much less likely to collide with incoming attacks while still being on target to hit the enemy. And you're not going to get far with estoc/spear strike ripostes, let me tell you.

As an aside, what if they gave old active parry to shields only? That would probably look fine visually and make sense to players. I should comment that on the shield rework thread...

Knight 1269 3804
  • 11 Nov '18
 Frise

But to add to the discussion - I doubt batting weapons away with a clash mechanic would be very effective

Keep in my mind this would mean that your weapon clashes against others during windup and release after riposting, not just during the regular clash timing. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be hard even with stabby weapons to position them properly to make use of AP. Plus even if it's hard to do, isn't that a good thing? It can be balanced to be hard to do but super effective, and still have trades as a slight cushion for players who can't master the AP clash.

Regarding the "1vX is gonna be too easy" thing, that's just balance. This is a conceptual idea; If it becomes too easy to 1vX, hyper armour can be adjusted accordingly or AP clashes can be made stricter.

Duke 5483 13094
  • 11 Nov '18
 Jax — Community Manager

AP was bad because it was supposed to be an 1vX tool for the 1 but it made the X just spam the shit out of the 1 in most cases.

76 153
  • 12 Nov '18
 intTobey

@Frise said:
Keep in my mind this would mean that your weapon clashes against others during windup and release after riposting, not just during the regular clash timing.

Okay, makes sense. I didn't know you meant for clashes to happen during windup as well. Still, I maintain that thrusting weapons would still be disadvantaged for clashes. They're already disadvantaged for trades as well, since you're unlikely to stab multiple enemies with a riposte. I don't know how to solve that, I just see it as a problem that pushes players to choose strike weapons.

176 454
  • 13 Nov '18
 Koda

@Jax said:
AP was bad because it was supposed to be an 1vX tool for the 1 but it made the X just spam the shit out of the 1 in most cases.

I don't much mind that as an effect, tbh. I still think AP was better, as long as you fixed it doing back parries. I mean to me it makes sense that the X would spam. The 1 just has to be able to withstand it. In fact I feel like it's easier to win if they spam, rather than when you have to constantly keep your eye on every enemy because you can't predict when the attack comes. I never really had to deal with this in comp so IDK how it played out there, but I loved active parry. Now it just feels like a silly for honor thing with a magical revenge mode or some shit.

Knight 222 187
  • 14 Nov '18
 REKTKWONDO

@Jax said:
AP was bad because it was supposed to be an 1vX tool for the 1 but it made the X just spam the shit out of the 1 in most cases.

Not true, it dont change anything. X can still spam, they will just get trade instead of activ parry.

Mechanic like this shouldnt exist, pretty unskilled.

Just bring back Riposte feint so the 1 just have to play defensive, tempo and wait for his teamate to help him

396 453
  • 14 Nov '18
 JasonBourne

@REKTKWONDO said:

@Jax said:
AP was bad because it was supposed to be an 1vX tool for the 1 but it made the X just spam the shit out of the 1 in most cases.

Not true, it dont change anything. X can still spam, they will just get trade instead of activ parry.

Mechanic like this shouldnt exist, pretty unskilled.

Just bring back Riposte feint so the 1 just have to play defensive, tempo and wait for his teamate to help him

Ripost feints itself is a good mechanic but man the ripost anims are so broken that its best to wait for re-adding ripost feints tbh.

1091 1722

Riposte feints instead of unflinchable hits means that its more gambly to try parrying as the X... so just keep gambling and worse case you take one hit and you can start your next gamble. I like riposte feints but not at the cost of unflinchable riposte

I like the "trade" mechanic because it means the defender has inittiative and the X has to respect that or eat a hit... best case they land a hit with damage reduction and somehow avoid the riposte.

Only problem I have with the mechanic currently is that it gives too much damage reduction to the player in riposte. Afterall landing a hit should still be rewarding to the X.

Knight 762 3298
  • 15 Nov '18
 Mittsies

@Koda said:
Now it just feels like a silly for honor thing with a magical revenge mode or some shit.

and a magical barrier that automatically parries all incoming attacks is somehow not?

Just sayin'.

Knight 222 187
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  • 15 Nov '18
 REKTKWONDO

@JasonBourne said:

@REKTKWONDO said:

@Jax said:
AP was bad because it was supposed to be an 1vX tool for the 1 but it made the X just spam the shit out of the 1 in most cases.

Not true, it dont change anything. X can still spam, they will just get trade instead of activ parry.

Mechanic like this shouldnt exist, pretty unskilled.

Just bring back Riposte feint so the 1 just have to play defensive, tempo and wait for his teamate to help him

Ripost feints itself is a good mechanic but man the ripost anims are so broken that its best to wait for re-adding ripost feints tbh.

The ripost animation and ripost feint animation were fine back in the day.
And still, without animation you can still read, cause feint read is 95% Sound 5% Animation, as long as there is no grunt you shouldnt parry, so...

(That's why dev should make an option to remove retarded voice emote and sound environement)

Knight 222 187
  • 15 Nov '18
 REKTKWONDO

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
Riposte feints instead of unflinchable hits means that its more gambly to try parrying as the X... so just keep gambling and worse case you take one hit and you can start your next gamble. I like riposte feints but not at the cost of unflinchable riposte

I like the "trade" mechanic because it means the defender has inittiative and the X has to respect that or eat a hit... best case they land a hit with damage reduction and somehow avoid the riposte.

Only problem I have with the mechanic currently is that it gives too much damage reduction to the player in riposte. Afterall landing a hit should still be rewarding to the X.

Defender shouldnt have initiative, he should play defensive, try to make the objectiv instead of trying to kill opponent, tempo with chamber/parry, play safe and try to do the best he can.

Trade was the main problem in chivalry, it's ugly and dirty, unskilled.
In Xvs1, X should have the advantage, as same as other game.

Duke 5483 13094
  • 15 Nov '18
 Jax — Community Manager

X still have the advantage, by a large margin. They have 2 health and stamina bars instead of 1, and the 1 has to read 2 people at the same time. AP made it so the X just died all the time, with trades it's much more manageable, but still difficult.

Knight 58 78
  • 16 Nov '18
 男の娘

chamber active parry when