Mordhau

How do I punish a morph?

  • 30 Oct '18
 Ian
This comment was deleted.
Knight 222 187
  • 31 Oct '18
 REKTKWONDO

How to counter Feint and Morph and every thing in the whole game

Don't parry or windup in the opponent windup phase, wait for the release to start.

Thanks please lock that shit post, I'm tired to see retarded noob all around this fuckin forum

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  • 31 Oct '18
 intTobey

Sigh. Memes and shit-talking are why I never spend much time on this forum. What is it about slasher games that attracts dickheads?

Knight 693 1584
  • 31 Oct '18
 das

You're feeding (and so am I) by mentioning that. You can literally be the guy who discovered matrixing in Chivalry and people will still shittalk you because they've never heard of you (different region) and auto-think you're some guy who can't parry drags and advocates for "hold RMB to hold the parry". There's also comprehension, you're asking if you can do anything more active against morphs than just parrying/chambering the morph, not "morphs are a bad mechanic".

If you like playing psyops/tilting enemies, gambling while being ready to FTP is a good way to disincentivize morph drags because you'll just flinch them "out of turn". I mention being ready to FTP because if they morph accel with initiative, they'll just beat you. This is really easy to demonstrate with, say, Rapier vs Maul (is it even gambling at that point? You'd have to start your attack WAY later than the Maul for you to really be gambling). It gets trickier with more normal weapons. For instance, if you're doing an ft10, throw out a single "gamble" to test your enemy's resolve: do they blindly morph drag? React and try to FTP instantly (now you've read that they're vulnerable to feints on FTP)? All accels?

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  • 1 Nov '18
 intTobey

@das said:
You're feeding (and so am I) by mentioning that.

I know, but I don't think it matters. They'll meme and troll regardless.

If you like playing psyops/tilting enemies, gambling while being ready to FTP is a good way to disincentivize morph drags because you'll just flinch them "out of turn". I mention being ready to FTP because if they morph accel with initiative, they'll just beat you. This is really easy to demonstrate with, say, Rapier vs Maul (is it even gambling at that point? You'd have to start your attack WAY later than the Maul for you to really be gambling). It gets trickier with more normal weapons. For instance, if you're doing an ft10, throw out a single "gamble" to test your enemy's resolve: do they blindly morph drag? React and try to FTP instantly (now you've read that they're vulnerable to feints on FTP)? All accels?

Finally, some juicy advice. That all makes sense to me. But my problem with gambling while being ready to ftp is that I usually stam out pretty easily already. I'm not sure I can often afford to gamble away my stamina, but I'll try out the gambling with some estoc strike accels and see what the timing tolerances are. I bet half of my problem with morphs is just me giving up initiative.

Thanks for the tips.

Knight 292 904
  • 1 Nov '18
 GIRUGIRU

You can soft read(by initiating a chamber attempt) the initial attack

hard read the first attack, then chamber

hard read the entire thing

Hes punished himself by morphing and not landing any damage, it's costing him Stam and he's giving away his initiative. "Why shouldn't I morph every attack then?" Because if you do the same thing every time you will get raped by a player who has half a brain

Some morphs are very hard to read right now, like GS or halberd - might need balancing

Sellsword 681 2146
  • 1 Nov '18
 Goof

Though other people have probably aready said it:

Listen for the grunt noise their character makes to either parry or chamber, or you can start an attack and accel when you see a morph

Or you can just use the good ole feets to kick em

76 153
  • 1 Nov '18
 intTobey

@GIRUGIRU said:
Some morphs are very hard to read right now, like GS or halberd - might need balancing

Naturally these are two of the most popular weapons (GS definitely needs balancing). TBH it was a dude morphing halberd that made me come to the forums wanting advice. Their thrust to strike morph snaps back to strike windup so weirdly that it looks like a feint and tricks me into thinking I have the initiative now.

76 153
  • 1 Nov '18
 intTobey

@Goof said:
Listen for the grunt noise their character makes to either parry or chamber, or you can start an attack and accel when you see a morph

What if they double-bind the battlecry button to all of their keys like certain NA players? :O

Sellsword 681 2146
  • 1 Nov '18
 Goof

@intTobey said:

What if they double-bind the battlecry button to all of their keys like certain NA players? :O

raf,360x360,075,t,fafafa_ca443f4786.jpg

Knight 292 904
  • 1 Nov '18
 GIRUGIRU

I've been asking for halberd and GS turncap nerfs as their swing manipulation is too unreadable and their sheer power makes the other weapons just redundant in comparison.

Need to play alot more on the current patch before I can confidently say which weapons are top tier but the winning formula is swing manipulation + feints + range and a good stab. If a weapon has these it's generally going to be very viable

Mercenary 224 559
  • 4 Nov '18
 Izıl

gamble

Knight 2230 4004
  • 5 Nov '18
 Runagate

@REKTKWONDO said:
How to counter Feint and Morph and every thing in the whole game

Don't parry or windup in the opponent windup phase, wait for the release to start.

Thanks please lock that shit post, I'm tired to see retarded noob all around this fuckin forum

What if he fakes a decel and accels into me at the last moment, making it impossible for me to parry without cybernetically augmenting my nervous system?

Knight 693 1584
  • 5 Nov '18
 das

@Runagate said:

@REKTKWONDO said:
How to counter Feint and Morph and every thing in the whole game

Don't parry or windup in the opponent windup phase, wait for the release to start.

Thanks please lock that shit post, I'm tired to see retarded noob all around this fuckin forum

What if he fakes a decel and accels into me at the last moment, making it impossible for me to parry without cybernetically augmenting my nervous system?

It's not really an accel anymore because turn cap (present even during windup) prevents him from doing what you described. You should be able to see him really exaggerate his head movement if he attempts this.

Duke 2266 4006
  • 7 Nov '18
 Huggles

I sort of view a morph as a continuation of an attack, so it isn't really something you punish y'know? I find morphs significantly easier to read than feints anyway, cus it's one fluid thing. With feints it is like an abrupt stop.

Count 449 1186
  • 10 Nov '18
 Hadeus

Tobi,

I have found the best way to defend/deal with constant morphing are two things.

  1. Reading (rather than chambering).
  2. Attrition (play stamina warfare)

To expound on this;

For reading,

Try to prioritize parrying all attacks. This means waiting till till the last second and perhaps using the auditory 'grunt' on whether the attack is legit or not.

For stamina warefare,

Keep in mind if they are constantly morphing or morph feiting [and you are not], they are losing stamina quickly.

Alot of people like to chamber stab -> morph -> feint. Play off this!
It is an incredibly expensive move (20+7+10). Throw an easy stab out and expect them to do it. Read it. Repeat. This will deplete the over agressors quickly as long as you can read. When they are panting THEN you go on the offense.

Hope this helps.

Knight 222 187
  • 11 Nov '18
 REKTKWONDO

@Hadeus said:
Tobi,

I have found the best way to defend/deal with constant morphing are two things.

  1. Reading (rather than chambering).
  2. Attrition (play stamina warfare)

To expound on this;

For reading,

Try to prioritize parrying all attacks. This means waiting till till the last second and perhaps using the auditory 'grunt' on whether the attack is legit or not.

For stamina warefare,

Keep in mind if they are constantly morphing or morph feiting [and you are not], they are losing stamina quickly.

Alot of people like to chamber stab -> morph -> feint. Play off this!
It is an incredibly expensive move (20+7+10). Throw an easy stab out and expect them to do it. Read it. Repeat. This will deplete the over agressors quickly as long as you can read. When they are panting THEN you go on the offense.

Hope this helps.

Dont tell me chamber cost 20 stamina now

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  • 29 May
 Zergy

Came here looking to see if I should be making morphed attacks flinch with regular attacks. Not being able to punish morphs doesn't translate well to me. If someone is doing some janky morphed stab into an overhead with their weapon and I do a straight stab in sync with their attack I'd expect my unmodified attack to make them flinch? This catches me out a lot timing-wise because I don't expect to have to FTP something that should technically be a slower attack than my straight stab. It would make more sense for the person doing the morphed attack being the one to react with a FTP if they notice I'm going for a regular stab imo?

Knight 693 1584
  • 30 May
 das

Strange necro, but you have a common question that often gets answered unhelpfully.

This is assuming you both have weapons of similar speed.

At NEUTRAL, if you both start attacks near the same time and one morphs, he will lose so long as the other accels.

When one person parries or chambers, he has a timing advantage, an INITIATIVE. Ripostes cannot be beat in timing (but they can't morph or feint).

Chamber morphs will still come out faster than any attempt of yours to spam and flinch, so long as he morphs early and accels. On the other extreme end, a Halberd chambering a stab, morphing as late as possible, and dragging can be YOLO'd or clashed by a rapier in time. Everything in between can be more ambiguous though the ball's always in the chamberer's court and the onus is on him to not delay too hard.

Sometimes people delay counterattack after a parry so that they can feint or morph. Since this isn't a riposte, I like to call it a false riposte. False riposte accels still beat gambles because the parry lockout is long. False riposte morphs and morph drags are even more susceptible to gamble yolo flinches because they're so delayed.

45 25
  • 30 May
 Digganob

@intTobey said:

Parries are hard countered by feints. Feints are countered by chambers. Chambers are countered by morphs. So what counters morphs? I'm not trying to imply a gap in the mechanics, I'm just trying to learn how to play from a logical perspective. I want a 'best' response to someone's morph. Right now I just either try to accel to hit first (gamble) or parry.

Well, following the circular relationship, it follows that morphs are countered by parries. If you predict the morph, they only succeed in losing more stamina than they should have. So eventually they will stop using it, because you keep parrying it, and revert back to other attacks. If they don't they lose the stamina battle. That extra stamina cost makes a difference. You might not be able to do some crazy thing against it, but who cares? It's essentially a delayed attack with a weird animation. And there aren't any "punishes" for normal attacks either. So it follows that there shouldn't be for morphs either. As I said, just treat it as a normal attack yet slow attack with a different animation.