Mordhau

Ban Discussion

Knight 196 414

In all seriousness though, anyone defending 2Lazy4Name is being retarded. Sorry. No two ways about it.

I'll just repeat what I said in Giru's discord:

Fucking damn. Imagine you own a business and someone comes in, starts beating up your customers and calling them nggers. You gonna let that guy stick around just because there isn't a book of rules that says you can't call people nggers or beat them up?

324 864
  • 3 Oct '18
 Xatrian

He was in a private server. Your analogy sucks.

Knight 528 3376
  • 3 Oct '18
 rob_owner

this clever conspiracy perpetrated by the dev team in order to draw attention away from the current patch 17 stabs by bringing to light the discussion of unspoken rules and social ineptitude (all your interactions with other social beings, while completely free from rules by default, bring with them the consequence of the person you communicate with reacting to what you say negatively or positively) may have worked on all these sheep but it wont work on me, i know what you guys are up to, i can see past your smoke and mirrors, i can peek my head through this painted curtain of fabricated drama and discourse where you trace your feet in the sand at the moot notion of concrete rules, i can smell the fictitious odor emanating from this facade of a thread, nice try sir, truly i mean it, but im afraid your efforts are in vain. This steel cage of a noodle, this impenetrable mine field of a noggin is far too astute in the art of deception to fall victim to this most odorous of scheme. To think you can fool me is to reveal yourself as the real fool! This ban is all a hoax! This thread is but conjecture! Dont be fooled by the detractors!

Knight 93 270
  • 3 Oct '18
 Nikosawa

Fucking damn. Imagine you own a business and someone comes in, starts beating up your customers and calling them nggers. You gonna let that guy stick around just because there isn't a book of rules that says you can't call people nggers or beat them up?

exactly. but people say it was a private server, but even if it is a private shop as long as everyone has access the owner of the franchise is well within his rights to kick him out.

Knight 93 270
  • 3 Oct '18
 Nikosawa

@Xatrian said:
He was in a private server. Your analogy sucks.

A SERVER OPEN TO THE PUPLIC !!

Knight 254 691
324 864
  • 3 Oct '18
 Xatrian

@Nikosawa said:

@Xatrian said:
He was in a private server. Your analogy sucks.

A SERVER OPEN TO THE PUPLIC !!

it's trying to communicate

Knight 196 414

@Xatrian said:
He was in a private server. Your analogy sucks.

Hello retard. The private business in my analogy is in reference to the game as a whole, which the devs are in charge of, not just that private server.

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  • 3 Oct '18
 Cswic

Why are you going in about stuff lazy said to the "customers in the store" or stuff he did to other players in the server? It is not relevant according to the discord chats so talking about it is just missing the point of op's concern. The analogy would be more accurate if you said he went into a store and shit talked the owner who then refused service.

By all accounts though, the racist and edgy shit he said only mattered when he said it to devs.

Basically means this ban is personal and not because of some "we don't tolerate racism or being a dbag in the community" type reason. Instead the reason is just "we don't tolerate talking shit to devs" given the info shown so far.

Sure, devs can ban who they want from their game as that is their right. But next time it may be you who says something that a dev decides to take the wrong way, or he is having a shit day, and then you get banned. Devs have to probably put up with a lot of stuff already without someone talking shit to them. It isn't unfair for them to just say "fuck this guy, banned" in the moment, but long term it can look lousy.

The reason to have rules in place is to make sure there is a line clearly drawn about what is acceptable. This is good for everyone as there will be no confusion on what is bannable and if devs ban someone else that player can't easily turn around and say it was for personal reasons if devs can cite rules the player broke.

Should a lot of this be common sense? Sure. But there is absolutely no harm in having rules or guidelines established for future issues.

324 864
  • 3 Oct '18
 Xatrian

@Prince Oberyn Martell said:

@Xatrian said:
He was in a private server. Your analogy sucks.

Hello retard. The private business in my analogy is in reference to the game as a whole, which the devs are in charge of, not just that private server.

So what you're telling me is that private servers don't matter and you're not allowed to do anything on them that the devs deem bad (without actually telling you, of course).

Knight 196 414

@Cswic said:
Why are you going in about stuff lazy said to the "customers in the store" or stuff he did to other players in the server? It is not relevant according to the discord chats so talking about it is just missing the point of op's concern. The analogy would be more accurate if you said he went into a store and shit talked the owner who then refused service.

By all accounts though, the racist and edgy shit he said only mattered when he said it to devs.

Basically means this ban is personal and not because of some "we don't tolerate racism or being a dbag in the community" type reason. Instead the reason is just "we don't tolerate talking shit to devs" given the info shown so far.

Sure, devs can ban who they want from their game as that is their right. But next time it may be you who says something that a dev decides to take the wrong way, or he is having a shit day, and then you get banned.

The reason to have rules in place is to make sure there is a line clearly drawn about what is acceptable. This is good for everyone as anyone with questions about what is bannable will have answers and if devs ban someone else that player can't easily turn around and say it was for personal reasons if devs can cite rules.

If you read the discord chats in the multiple discords that this was being discussed in (mordhau and giru's), you'd know that Lazy being banned isn't just personal. It's not because the devs just didn't like him. The devs have known about his trolling and toxic behavior towards the community for a while. The final straw was Lazy literally calling the devs racist slurs to their faces, lol.

Please don't use this slippery slope fallacy of "next time it may be YOU". Nearly everyone in the entire Mordhau community that knows about Lazy finds his behavior abhorrent. He's interrupted duels, team killed, RDMd, thrown smoke pots to troll people, spewed racist profanity, threatened to DDOS the forums, threatened peoples (including the devs) family, and just about every other shitty thing a person can possibly do.

I agree that there should be written rules. However, there didn't have to be written rules in Lazy's case. He should have known better and now he's going to have to suffer the consequences of being quite possibly the worst member of the Mordhau community. Sorry!

Knight 196 414

@Xatrian said:

@Prince Oberyn Martell said:

@Xatrian said:
He was in a private server. Your analogy sucks.

Hello retard. The private business in my analogy is in reference to the game as a whole, which the devs are in charge of, not just that private server.

So what you're telling me is that private servers don't matter and you're not allowed to do anything on them that the devs deem bad (without actually telling you, of course).

He's been banned from nearly every private server I've been on, east and west coast. I'm not sure what server he was on when he called the devs n-ggers, but honestly, whether he was on a public or private server shouldn't matter with his level of toxicity, because he goes from server to server trying to ruin everyone else's experience.

251 859
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  • 3 Oct '18
 Cswic

Oh boy philosophy / logic 101 terms here we go.

Saying that devs could decide to ban someone else on a whim is not a fallacy when there are no rules currently in place.

Lazy case was just common sense, as in obviously there were some ban worthy things being done rules or no rules.

Why was lazy not banned months ago? Why was puppets not banned? Both of them have said racist shit tons of times and just been toxic in general or trolled games.

Knight 196 414

@Cswic said:
Oh boy philosophy / logic 101 terms here we go.

Saying that devs could decide to ban someone else on a whim is not a fallacy when there are no rules currently in place.

Lazy case was just common sense, as in obviously there were some ban worthy things being done rules or no rules.

It is a fallacy, since Lazy is the ONLY case of someone being game banned and he literally had to go to INSANE lengths to finally get game banned. This doesn't just happen on a fucking whim, use your head.

324 864
  • 3 Oct '18
 Xatrian

@Prince Oberyn Martell said:

@Xatrian said:

@Prince Oberyn Martell said:

@Xatrian said:
He was in a private server. Your analogy sucks.

Hello retard. The private business in my analogy is in reference to the game as a whole, which the devs are in charge of, not just that private server.

So what you're telling me is that private servers don't matter and you're not allowed to do anything on them that the devs deem bad (without actually telling you, of course).

He's been banned from nearly every private server I've been on, east and west coast. I'm not sure what server he was on when he called the devs n-ggers, but honestly, whether he was on a public or private server shouldn't matter with his level of toxicity, because he goes from server to server trying to ruin everyone else's experience.

He obviously wasn't banned from the server this happened on

big think

251 859
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  • 3 Oct '18
 Cswic

Let's see. There are many instances of people being toxic to other players in game and in forums. No perma bans from game as far as I can tell. Puppets at least has said shit as bad as lazy in game to other players but never to devs from what I know.

What are other instances of players being toxic to devs personally? Aside from jax at times.

I can't think of many off the top of my head but most devs are EU so maybe someone else can shed some light.

So sure, only one instance of player being permabanned. But so far we have many instances of players being toxic to players, and only one instance (someone else can chime in here with other instances of they exist) of a player being this toxic to a dev which resulted in a ban.

Knight 196 414

@Cswic said:
Let's see. There are many instances of people being toxic to other players in game and in forums. No perma bans from game as far as I can tell. Puppets at least has said shit as bad as lazy in game to other players.

What are other instances of players being toxic to devs personally? Aside from jax at times.

I can't think of many off the top of my head but most devs are EU so maybe someone else can shed some light.

As far as I've seen, only Puppets comes close to being as toxic as Lazy, but he hasn't been around too much. Plus, nobody has really told on him as far as I'm aware. I'm sure once the rules are up, if he comes back and acts the way he acts, he'll be banned. EU folks were aware of Lazy because he went to their servers as well, lol.

Again, like I said, nobody has been quite as misbehaved as Lazy, so it's not like he was just banned on a mere whim.

36 60
  • 3 Oct '18
 JohnTravoltage

Although I disagree with the punishment, what I atleast want to know is if, and what the warnings were that the devs gave him before hand. If they didn't explicitly say that if he continued that he would be permanently banned from vac secured servers than this is honestly pretty absurd.

With banning I don't see why they don't have a normal system like what most games use. On official servers people can report others for misconduct (for current guidelines, not future guidelines...) and if there are lots of reports then the devs can review this, officially give the person warnings and inform them of what will happen if it continues, then follow through with whatever it is on the official servers. Could also have stuff like votekick system, muting/gagging etc. Honestly, I think in this case muting/gagging whatever you wanna call it and prevent him from communicating would have been fine if not more effective if done earlier, since it isn't just removing a player from the game while preventing them from being a problem, if they then continue to play against the rules (trolling etc.) then they can be banned from playing the game.

REgardless of the 'hows' of punishment, I still want to know if the devs gave a proper warning before the rather serious perma ban or if it was as unprofessional as crush's saying that the code of conduct he was banned on was based on common sense which is completely absurd especially when we are talking about communication, in which meaning can vary greatly between regions, groups of people etc.

985 6954
  • 3 Oct '18
 marox — Project Lead

This was an extreme measure due to an extreme individual. This wasn't just because he "badmouthed staff", although he sure loved spamming us with insults even in private on Steam. Some of us had him on our Steam friends list, because he actually used to be a reasonable person once. I honestly have no idea what his problem is. This is a long list of offenses over what seems an eternity. In the end, I was the one that pushed the button after deciding that enough is enough, and he can play with bots which, realistically, are the only pseudo-people on Earth that won't mind his behavior.

You would expect us to ban cheaters, this was about up there in terms of ruining the fun of others. It's one thing to call someone something, but quite another when you make it the purpose of your life to spam the chat over and over, for days, months, years. He is way too much work for us to deal with, and there's way too many screenshots of his abusive behavior on my hard drive than I have space for.

324 864
  • 3 Oct '18
 Xatrian

so what i'm getting out of this is that private servers don't matter and you guys are incapable of blocking someone on Steam and ignoring him in-game on PRIVATE SERVERS