Mordhau

Alpha Build #17 Discussion Thread

Knight 693 1593
  • 28 Aug '18
 das

@JoBe said:
I feel like the billhook should have the ladder pull ability too. Is there any plans to add a one handed billhook? It could be awesome as a skin for the axe.

I'm pretty sure billhook already dismounts people on ladders.

Knight 928 2545
  • 29 Aug '18
 Pred

@Huggles said:
In past patches, chamber exchanges had the same staring at your opponent and waiting till the last possible moment "issue" that feints have. The more steps added to the move in question, the more backpedaling and doing nothing. This very passive, reactionary, and delayed style of gameplay that is inherent to how the mechanics of mordhau work are what you criticize when you talk about feints.

That's why I said all these things like "they have potential to be" or "needed tweaks".

@Huggles said:
Clashes are the only mechanic that avoid this passive turn taking.

Wut? In a duel scenario, where turn taking would be a problem, they happen once in a blue moon, such a rare occurence is not preventing anything on a global scale. Where clashes do happen now is mostly in 1vX or XvX.

@Huggles said:
I just find it very odd that the only mechanic that fundamentally avoids what you find boring about feints is the mechanic you find problematic atm.
Btw, footwork, attack angling, and body manipulation all play into clashes and it is not really random at all

The complexity and depth of clash gameplay is nonexistent compared to that of chamber/chamber morph/chamber feint/chamber morph feint exchange. It's like I said I wanted to go see an NBA game because I'm getting annoyed by kids kicking the ball on the beach next to me and you got all like "how the hell do you want one of these things when you don't like the other. There is a ball in both, so they are literally the same thing".

"Footwork, attack angling and body manipulation" are just filler buzzwords that can make even LMBing at each other sound somewhat complex, but they happen everywhere in the game and in the essence clash exchange is that we both attack at the same time hoping to hit first with an accel and if it doesn't happen we both attack again.

Count 801 3062
  • 29 Aug '18
 EatAtRedLobster

After playing long enough to get past the inevitable adjustment period that comes with a new patch I feel that I have played enough to get a solid first impression.

This patch is glorious. The current stamina costs, general combat, player movement speeds, etc. are in a delicate sweet spot. Previous versions have felt like the semi-enjoyable work in progress that they were, but with this patch Mordhau has become the solid fun game I was hoping for. I honestly love it, and hope the devs stick to this current core foundation with only very minor tweaks. In my opinion where the combat system is concerned the broad strokes are done, and small details are all that is left. Know when to put down the paintbrush.

It just feels RIGHT.

Mercenary 1143 2089
  • 29 Aug '18
 TheKingInTheNorth

Some feedback:

  • Longbow and Crossbow are way too accurate imho, the trajectory of arrows is too straight and there is not enough drop.

  • Longbow should not be able to be quickfired like the recurve. In my opinion the reason to pick the recurve should be because it's faster. If the longbow can fire almost/just as fast with more damage, what's the point?

  • Arrows travel a bit fast for my liking.

  • Momentum should count for foot to horse attacks as well as the reverse. If a guy on horseback is travelling fast in your direction, your hits should do more damage just as their hits would because of momentum. Same goes for throwing things at them and shooting projectiles.

  • If you're on a horse and another horseman comes up on the rear with a couched lance, his relative speed to you is actually quite slow. You shouldn't be able to instakill another horse rider with a couched weapon in that situation, it would be like a friendly tap on the back in real life, not a massive hit.

273 444
  • 29 Aug '18
 YOLANDIVISSER

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
Some feedback:

  • Longbow and Crossbow are way too accurate imho, the trajectory of arrows is too straight and there is not enough drop.

  • Longbow should not be able to be quickfired like the recurve. In my opinion the reason to pick the recurve should be because it's faster. If the longbow can fire almost/just as fast with more damage, what's the point?

  • Arrows travel a bit fast for my liking.

  • Momentum should count for foot to horse attacks as well as the reverse. If a guy on horseback is travelling fast in your direction, your hits should do more damage just as their hits would because of momentum. Same goes for throwing things at them and shooting projectiles.

  • If you're on a horse and another horseman comes up on the rear with a couched lance, his relative speed to you is actually quite slow. You shouldn't be able to instakill another horse rider with a couched weapon in that situation, it would be like a friendly tap on the back in real life, not a massive hit.

Physics and inheritance is going to get really fucking complicated if this is dwelled on

Mercenary 1143 2089
  • 29 Aug '18
 TheKingInTheNorth

@YOLANDIVISSER said:

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
Some feedback:

  • Longbow and Crossbow are way too accurate imho, the trajectory of arrows is too straight and there is not enough drop.

  • Longbow should not be able to be quickfired like the recurve. In my opinion the reason to pick the recurve should be because it's faster. If the longbow can fire almost/just as fast with more damage, what's the point?

  • Arrows travel a bit fast for my liking.

  • Momentum should count for foot to horse attacks as well as the reverse. If a guy on horseback is travelling fast in your direction, your hits should do more damage just as their hits would because of momentum. Same goes for throwing things at them and shooting projectiles.

  • If you're on a horse and another horseman comes up on the rear with a couched lance, his relative speed to you is actually quite slow. You shouldn't be able to instakill another horse rider with a couched weapon in that situation, it would be like a friendly tap on the back in real life, not a massive hit.

Physics and inheritance is going to get really fucking complicated if this is dwelled on

Momentum is already in the game, it just needs to be symmetrical. I'm not a dev but I can't imagine that's a huge thing to implement.

273 444
  • 1
  • 29 Aug '18
 YOLANDIVISSER

@TheKingInTheNorth said:

@YOLANDIVISSER said:

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
Some feedback:

  • Longbow and Crossbow are way too accurate imho, the trajectory of arrows is too straight and there is not enough drop.

  • Longbow should not be able to be quickfired like the recurve. In my opinion the reason to pick the recurve should be because it's faster. If the longbow can fire almost/just as fast with more damage, what's the point?

  • Arrows travel a bit fast for my liking.

  • Momentum should count for foot to horse attacks as well as the reverse. If a guy on horseback is travelling fast in your direction, your hits should do more damage just as their hits would because of momentum. Same goes for throwing things at them and shooting projectiles.

  • If you're on a horse and another horseman comes up on the rear with a couched lance, his relative speed to you is actually quite slow. You shouldn't be able to instakill another horse rider with a couched weapon in that situation, it would be like a friendly tap on the back in real life, not a massive hit.

Physics and inheritance is going to get really fucking complicated if this is dwelled on

Momentum is already in the game, it just needs to be symmetrical. I'm not a dev but I can't imagine that's a huge thing to implement.

I think it's stupid and wouldn't be fair.

If we continue this logic, if a slash is going in the same direction as the horseman, it should do almost no damage. I feel like there's even more wrong with this logic. Transferal of energy etc

Mercenary 1143 2089
  • 29 Aug '18
 TheKingInTheNorth

@YOLANDIVISSER said:

@TheKingInTheNorth said:

@YOLANDIVISSER said:

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
Some feedback:

  • Longbow and Crossbow are way too accurate imho, the trajectory of arrows is too straight and there is not enough drop.

  • Longbow should not be able to be quickfired like the recurve. In my opinion the reason to pick the recurve should be because it's faster. If the longbow can fire almost/just as fast with more damage, what's the point?

  • Arrows travel a bit fast for my liking.

  • Momentum should count for foot to horse attacks as well as the reverse. If a guy on horseback is travelling fast in your direction, your hits should do more damage just as their hits would because of momentum. Same goes for throwing things at them and shooting projectiles.

  • If you're on a horse and another horseman comes up on the rear with a couched lance, his relative speed to you is actually quite slow. You shouldn't be able to instakill another horse rider with a couched weapon in that situation, it would be like a friendly tap on the back in real life, not a massive hit.

Physics and inheritance is going to get really fucking complicated if this is dwelled on

Momentum is already in the game, it just needs to be symmetrical. I'm not a dev but I can't imagine that's a huge thing to implement.

I think it's stupid and wouldn't be fair.

If we continue this logic, if a slash is going in the same direction as the horseman, it should do almost no damage. I feel like there's even more wrong with this logic. Transferal of energy etc

To be fair, a slash goes in an arc, so some energy is being transferred in another direction. I mean, it's not a priority or anything, just a consistency issue.

Mercenary 112 315
  • 30 Aug '18
 Racemate

@Frise said:
... If this system was used, you could play literally any melody, and almost any chord progression, without needing any external tools or macro. Imagine three dudes, one playing the melody, another the chords, and another percussion (maybe just banging the lute on the floor). This is what Mordhau was always supposed to be.

I think a flute would match lute well.
As for battles I would think of Scottish bagpipes and horn.

Conscript 4562 6301
  • 30 Aug '18
 vanguard

Guys uhh... have you played with the carving knife (or something like this i dont remeber the name or how to write this lmao)?

It uhh, is really really fucking fast beyond imagination. It doesn't flinch and its basically a toothpick, but boi is that shit fucking fast.

Probably the best weapon to bully noobs and make they think the game is broken because "flinch lock" or something lol. I really don't know if it is a good idea, it does look utterly broken although it is easy to fight against it if you know what you are doing.

Knight 928 2545
  • 30 Aug '18
 Pred

@vanguard said:
Guys uhh... have you played with the carving knife (or something like this i dont remeber the name or how to write this lmao)?

It uhh, is really really fucking fast beyond imagination. It doesn't flinch and its basically a toothpick, but boi is that shit fucking fast.

Probably the best weapon to bully noobs and make they think the game is broken because "flinch lock" or something lol. I really don't know if it is a good idea, it does look utterly broken although it is easy to fight against it if you know what you are doing.

Yeah, devs' obsession with supersonic retarded spam is a mystery to me. Why would I waste precious seconds doing some reduntant overcomplicated shit when I can just stab 3 times with Short Sword and every casual will be dead before he realizes what is going on.

Knight 928 2545
  • 1
  • 30 Aug '18
 Pred

In other news:

Ghots swings on ragdolled players who just stood up.

Getting up from the ground and walking on 1 leg with the Flesh Wound perk looks... uh. Weird.

When you LMB someone in the head from the back, they will parry it in the front. Happened 3-4 times to me in FFA, don't think it was a problem before patch 17.

Almost instakill on fire, seriously?

I still can't see shit in some of the halls of Grad and Tourney. Even better now with Bear Traps everywhere.

Archery. WTF. It's not nerfed compared to Chiv in the slightest. Recurve is a machine gun, its only flaw is the small drop that it has at very long distances, which Longbow doesn't. Sway is a non-issue when shooting. Range covers the entire Grad or bottom part of Camp, when you go out the gate every archer on the map can shoot you. When you run out of close targets you can look around for anybody literally anywhere and you have a new one, as it was said earlier - if you can see someone, you can hit him (with Longbow). Shooting into chokepoints with more than 1 person coming through is a guaranteed hit. Quickshot from Recurve has no animation and is not very random - you just have to know how much above the target you should aim. Weapon swap out of flinch. Ugh.

Conscript 4562 6301
  • 1
  • 30 Aug '18
 vanguard

@Pred said:

@vanguard said:
Guys uhh... have you played with the carving knife (or something like this i dont remeber the name or how to write this lmao)?

It uhh, is really really fucking fast beyond imagination. It doesn't flinch and its basically a toothpick, but boi is that shit fucking fast.

Probably the best weapon to bully noobs and make they think the game is broken because "flinch lock" or something lol. I really don't know if it is a good idea, it does look utterly broken although it is easy to fight against it if you know what you are doing.

Yeah, devs' obsession with supersonic retarded spam is a mystery to me. Why would I waste precious seconds doing some reduntant overcomplicated shit when I can just stab 3 times with Short Sword and every casual will be dead before he realizes what is going on.

I mean, this sanic knife could be used to help a noob improve his footwork if you were to teach him how to play the game. Without knowing how to deal with it, it is definetly one of the best bullying tools avaliable tbh

About the shortsword, idk man same could be said about say, halberd. 2 hits and the noob will be obliterated, halberd has insane delays, the morphs are scarry as fuck, feints and chamber feints are also nightmare fuel. With basic distancing and footwork the weapon plays itself, you can just lmb and win because the timing difference on halberd's attacks can be absolutely tricky to deal with.

I think I know what you mean, like simply spaming stab is easy and fucking effective with 1h against noobs, but spamming lmb is also pretty damn easy and effective with big release weapons against noobs.

Honestly? Noobs are fucked in this game anyways lol, there are infinite ways to kill people in this game. If a noob doesn't have patience, or has ego problems or something like this, this game will absolutely cause a heart attack on the person.

The carving knife though, it is like nothing else in the game, it works absolutely different because A)fast as fuck boi like really fucking fast and B) it doesn't flinch. It definetly isn't hard to go against it, but I think it could be absolutely infuriating for someone learning the game.

What might balance it against noobs is the fact that noobs just click everywhere so they might end up just trading the knife user to death. Also, it is worth mentioning, it isn't easy to play with this shit knife lmao

Overal, hilarious weapon/10 but looks kinda broken and has high noob bullying potential

The game needs a tutorial.

Knight 928 2545
  • 30 Aug '18
 Pred

@vanguard said:
About the shortsword, idk man same could be said about say, halberd. 2 hits and the noob will be obliterated, halberd has insane delays, the morphs are scarry as fuck, feints and chamber feints are also nightmare fuel.

These whole delays or morph things sound like effort tbh. I just wanna scroll 3 times.

Knight 601 2021
  • 1
  • 31 Aug '18
 LuxCandidus
  • The game feels so much more fluid now. When attacking it no longer feels like your movement slows down to a crawl, and the increased effectiveness of matrixing is absolutely beautiful. Ducking under swings or sidestepping them is such a great feeling. The severe decrease in tier 3 armour further adds to that great feeling of speed.
  • I love the perks. Flesh Wound is a lot of fun, and I have been using Rat to sneak up on archers and take them out with a stealth playstyle. It is so satisfying. I disagree with having a perk that gives you more stamina per hit, since in most cases you would be forced to take it.
  • There are so many amazing new systems in place: dynamic wounds, dynamic flinch reactions, weapons getting caught on armour. All of them add so much to the game despite being purely cosmetic.
  • The voices are great. Excellent job with them; but I am not a fan of how much the pitch can be raised. It sounds like there are smurfs amidst us on the battlefield. Still, I am really looking forward to hearing the female personalities.
  • Voice commands are 5 per page while emotes are 9 per page. Make it consistent. I know it is likely because there are Frontline-related commands currently missing in the live build, but I thought it worth mentioning anyway.
  • Allow us to choose emotes per character rather than having all of them. There are too many; most go unused; a lot of them are unfitting for certain characters; and it would only add to the customisation of the game by allowing you to curate your character's behaviour in a sense.
  • Now that kicks no longer stun, allow players to kick when holding a ranged or throwing weapon. It feels very unintuitive to be unable to kick because of what you are holding, especially when an enemy is chasing you and you have to switch to a different weapon just to kick open a door.
  • The dynamic crosshair is a great addition, one I had been looking forward to for a long time. I know you have removed some of its functionality so as not to overwhelm the player with information, but it would be perfect if the crosshair turned green whenever you begin an attack and remained that way for the window during which you can feint and morph. It would also be great if it turned red whenever you are in lockout. There is not enough feedback for these states, making them seem kind of arbitrary even though they are not. I strongly advise implementing this suggestion.
  • Expanded Camp is wonderful, and so are the changes to Grad. The maps are beginning to take shape and become more complex, and I am glad as I was worried the maps would remain too linear.
  • I have come to the conclusion no one's character looks good on team modes. In Free For All everyone has some distinct, good-looking design, and then it all gets drowned in a shade of red or blue once the game mode changes, and no one's character looks good anymore. At this point I would prefer everyone having an out-of-place icon hovering above them to convey their team, as long as it meant they get to look the way they actually created their character. Maybe there is a more appealing solution. Maybe everyone could look the same but have a red or blue armband to signify their team. With the UI already indicating if you are staring at an ally or foe, I do not think a lot of clarity would be lost, and those game modes would look so much better.

EDIT:

  • Kicks no longer have a headshot bonus yet kicks to the head trigger the headshot sound, which could be misleading.
  • Make the emote menu a fixed list that, rather than changing based on your weapon or lack thereof, displays unavailable emotes in greyed-out text.
252 864
  • 32
  • 31 Aug '18
 Cswic

Recurve bow can shotgun spam at close - medium range too easily because of the low sway. Looks like some lars anderson or legolas bullshit. Also would be nice to have a simple dot crosshair option without the "T"

Maul / blunt hitsounds sounded more satisfying in patch 16 imo. Feels bad to headshot someone with a maul and hear a "dink" sound rather than the nice thud or thunk from previous patches.

Footstep sounds are basically nonexistent now. No point in spending 2 points on rat perk when no one can hear you coming anyway. Also do your footsteps make the same sound for your enemies as they do for yourself? Or is this another dual perspective thing?

Cosmetic flinch from arrows can be annoying if someone attacking you is shot and then does a cosmetic flinch anim mid attack.

Headshot hitboxes seem screwed up or the 1st person perspective is. Plenty of instances of seeing blood splatter in your chest area / below weapon hand in 1st person only for it to be a headshot.

1hand bastard sword stab release is 300ms. Somehow I doubt that is intended since even the carving knife has 350ms stab release.

Stabs hitting before grunts and feeling nearly instant in general isn't very fun. Particularly when combined with the longer morph and feint windows.

Cat perk would be better if it increased the distance you could fall before taking damage in addition to reducing fall damage.

Dodge perk seems okay at best. Don't really feel it does much to level the playing field of a 6pt loadout with dodge perk vs a 3/3/2 + 5pt+ weapon setup but maybe I just need to use it more.

Also as pred mentioned, not a big fan of the helicoptering and "180 run away combined with helicopter spin" that is more common now due to the movement changes and turncap tweaks.

Some bushes look to have different textures / models now and they don't allow you to hide in them as well as previously. See the larger bushes on camp / tourney. New bushes look like some stringy weeds stuck together. Patch 16 on the left patch 17 on the right. Right side has max foliage settings too. Are the new bushes better for performance at least?

bush1_2.png

1158 1813

My feedback:

Best patch so far. I'm having alot of fun with the game in its current state. I like these voice commands better than Chivalry's.

I find it easier to read things now namely because there aren't so many insta-hits. Everything flows well even when I'm on EU.

I absolutely hate shields now though. How do you even fight them? Just spam them until they run out of stamina?

I think the previous patch had shields almost perfect. Shields only needed to make a bit more sense when blocking waterfalls where it would look like you blocked but their swing passed through. Back then shields required skill to use and skill to beat. Now you can barely get around them at all and they're no fun to use nor to fight against. Shields have been artificially nerfed/buffed to fit a role that they already held if you were skilled. Shields were my go to in team play and could hold their own in duels. Now it's like you're carrying a castle wall on your arm and I don't plan on using them at all this patch.

May as well have copy/pasted Chivalry's shields. Bring back last patches shields please.

Knight 928 2545
  • 31 Aug '18
 Pred

I'm all for goofy shit and funny lines, but the highest pitch of one of the voices is just unbearable. Like, physically hurting. There are a couple more Alvin and the chipmunks or Crazy Frog tier ones.

Don't know if it's feasible, but chamber morphs maybe should chamber initial counter chambers as well. Hopefully this sentence makes sense. I know that morphing in a stab chamber exchange against 1H means 100% chance of getting hit by stab so I try to avoid that (with various effects), but today I got killed by Maul stab when going for a chamber morph. I know, my fault for even thinking I won't get gambled.

Overall combat-wise game feels like literally Chivalry now. Tornado feint and Headbanger feint (optional name: Spine Breaker) are a staple of offense. Being ready to FTP after gambling or feinting and runnign like a headless chicken is a staple of defense. You get helicoptered by 20 Zweis and Halberds in the meatgrinder and spam gambled with Short Sword when you get to the archers. It's like 2015 never left!

Really though, in fights with the fastest 1H weapons I'm either chamber locked or riposte 6 times in a row hoping maybe this time I can drag it to the extreme and get lucky, can't do much else as not riposting is just wasted stamina from parrying the next spam hit.

In terms of map design, it would be nice if horse riders would have a part of the map to fight mostly other horse riders and only some of the infantry. Being potential roadkill at all times on a highway map is really boring.

Biggest weapons + medium armor is by far the most efficient setup, going to 3/3/3 LS feels like being defenseless zombie bait waiting to get overrun. Both Zwei and Halberd are Chiv-tier and this could be a nice opportunity to maybe make them into support weapons to differentiate the whole armory. Meaning that regular Zwei and alt Halberd would be pretty tough to land a hit against an aware opponent, not some of the easiest because of the draaaaaags and the absurd accel ability.

I'm also fairly sure now that SOMETHING has changed regarding the instantness of stabs, even after the hotfix. It feels like parry immediately at the first frame you see it coming or get hit. I really don't think it was like that in the last few patches.

Knight 928 2545
  • 1 Sep '18
 Pred

Also, not sure if parry being prolonged after it connects with an attack is still a thing. Even if it's not, maybe it should snap back to idle even faster. Not THAT many people use this "my weapon in a parry position may or may not also be a riposte" headbob, but the ones who do are super annoying (it adds to the "backpedal and watch until they are done" game) and make it look broken.

Bastard Sword should be made distinguishable from Longsword. If they have the straight guard on BS I usually realize it's BS after taking 2 hits that were much faster than expected.

Bear traps need a much bigger disable box.

Knight 928 2545
  • 1
  • 2 Sep '18
 Pred

@marox said:

@Pred said:
Instahits that I think had been fixed like, I dont' know, 2-3 patches ago (?) seem to be back.

I doubt this is the case, rather, what's probably happening is the servers are shitting themselves. Seems we did something that broke our server anim-lodding functionality (which reduces animation quality when not needed) and this completely destroys server performance right now even for small player counts. It's a huge deal and we'll do a patch to fix this soon.

I mean this:

vlcsnap-2018-09-02-12h53m05s418.png

vlcsnap-2018-09-02-12h53m14s393.png

It was a constant problem for months which seemed to disappear, not sure when, patch 14 I think?

Looking at damage, this is also a headshot.