Mordhau

Alpha Build #17 Discussion Thread

Knight 693 1593
  • 26 Aug '18
 das

This patch has massively buffed my playstyle and I can Hanzo without the rest of Overwatch's bullshit, pretty good from what little I've played so far. Matrixing is extremely worth it and I'm happy to have practiced that and footwork so much beforehand. Chambers are still very worth it and I'm still severely outstamming the majority of the playerbase without having even changed my playstyle lol. What I haven't gotten used to yet is how TINY the parry lockout is with some weapons and how consistent feint punishes and followups are now, it's a strange feeling when Zwei doesn't get double parried and can punish estoc now.

The bows feel great, I'm already quite comfortable with them. Chivalry archery felt awful with its turn caps and gorillion damage and didn't have anything like swaying... I was horrible at Chiv archery but find myself winning 1vX archer battles here.

Lots more for me to experiment with. Dodge is something that gets me killed more than not when I use it because I haven't gotten accustomed at all to it. Good, that means it isn't brainless like Chivalry. And 15 stam cost means it won't be spammed like Slasher.

988 6971
  • 26 Aug '18
 marox — Project Lead

@Pred said:
Instahits that I think had been fixed like, I dont' know, 2-3 patches ago (?) seem to be back.

I doubt this is the case, rather, what's probably happening is the servers are shitting themselves. Seems we did something that broke our server anim-lodding functionality (which reduces animation quality when not needed) and this completely destroys server performance right now even for small player counts. It's a huge deal and we'll do a patch to fix this soon.

1309 2875
  • 26 Aug '18
 Monsteri

What about the lute playing single notes by default and chords when you crouch (or the other way around)?

Knight 5183 6949
  • 27 Aug '18
 Humble Staff

@Frise said:

@marox said:

@Frise said:
Lute should really play single notes instead of chords... It's literally impossible to play an actualy melody right now (I know right click plays single notes but they're random)

(I also know you can do songs and shit with commands but we should be able to like jam it out you know)

RMB uses the 240 angling actually so it's not random. But I agree with you, single notes are way better. This was kind of a last minute change (or well, last-week sort of change) to introduce single notes, so we didn't think it all through entirely. Replacing chords with single notes for input might work better overall, and we're also thinking of adding a light tap on the trunk to act as a makeshift drum.

Ye, I discovered rmb uses 240 but the notes themselves seem to have been chosen arbitrarily. Ideally we'd have all 11 notes ordered chromatically. You could have Do, Di, Re, Me, Mi, Fa on LMB and Fi, Sol, Le, La, Te, Ti on RMB. Stabs could either continue chromatically, or do chords. Assuming you have 4 different stabs, I would choose C, F, G, and Am, as these represent the most common cadences of western music. If you can do 6 chords for the stab using 240, then I would add Dm and Em and you could play a big majority of popular songs.

Adding to this, you could add aditional notes by pressing shift and alt, maybe crouch as suggested by Monsteri.

Knight 1269 3807
  • 1
  • 27 Aug '18
 Frise

@Humble Staff said:

@Frise said:

@marox said:

@Frise said:
Lute should really play single notes instead of chords... It's literally impossible to play an actualy melody right now (I know right click plays single notes but they're random)

(I also know you can do songs and shit with commands but we should be able to like jam it out you know)

RMB uses the 240 angling actually so it's not random. But I agree with you, single notes are way better. This was kind of a last minute change (or well, last-week sort of change) to introduce single notes, so we didn't think it all through entirely. Replacing chords with single notes for input might work better overall, and we're also thinking of adding a light tap on the trunk to act as a makeshift drum.

Ye, I discovered rmb uses 240 but the notes themselves seem to have been chosen arbitrarily. Ideally we'd have all 11 notes ordered chromatically. You could have Do, Di, Re, Me, Mi, Fa on LMB and Fi, Sol, Le, La, Te, Ti on RMB. Stabs could either continue chromatically, or do chords. Assuming you have 4 different stabs, I would choose C, F, G, and Am, as these represent the most common cadences of western music. If you can do 6 chords for the stab using 240, then I would add Dm and Em and you could play a big majority of popular songs.

Adding to this, you could add aditional notes by pressing shift and alt, maybe crouch as suggested by Monsteri.

I think it would be better if crouching made you play chords instead of the respective note. So let's assume left overhead is C, then a crouched left overhead would be a C major chord. The chords I would assign if this were the case would be, following the same order as my suggested system: C, Db7, Dm, E7, Em, F, F#m7b5, G, G#dim7, Am, A7*, Bm7b5

This accounts for most commonly used chords of the medieval/renaissance era, including melodic and harmonic minor chords, and the tritone substitution. *A7 instead of a chord on A#, because A7 is part of the very common Coltrane Changes progression, and bVII chords aren't common.

If this system was used, you could play literally any melody, and almost any chord progression, without needing any external tools or macro. Imagine three dudes, one playing the melody, another the chords, and another percussion (maybe just banging the lute on the floor). This is what Mordhau was always supposed to be.

99 313
  • 27 Aug '18
 chaquator

Untitled.png

add the congo bongos and im satisfied

Knight 476 920
  • 1
  • 27 Aug '18
 wierHL

@marox said:
I doubt this is the case, rather, what's probably happening is the servers are shitting themselves. Seems we did something that broke our server anim-lodding functionality (which reduces animation quality when not needed) and this completely destroys server performance right now even for small player counts. It's a huge deal and we'll do a patch to fix this soon.

I've indeed noticed some instances where my game just stalls for a split second, no footage tho.

Mercenary 1143 2088
  • 27 Aug '18
 TheKingInTheNorth

There's a few server issues on my end, more trouble connecting than before. Get a message saying 'timed out loading steam inventory' or something like that. Also infinite 'joining server' sometimes. Trying again a few times works eventually though.

Conscript 4562 6301
  • 1
  • 27 Aug '18
 vanguard

Now that I played a bit more, I think that consistency is the key word in this patch tbh. I am still thinking about how every mechanic is at the moment interacting with each other, and its implications. This patch indeed changed a lot, and for the better! Fights are smarter, you see people using more stuff other then retarded footdrags all the goddamn time. The game rewards you for being creative in combat now, and give you plenty of tools to do so.

Drags feels awesome now, both to perform and to fight against, mostly because now I feel like I actually have to work towards making my opponent vulnerable to drags, and they aren't as simple to perform as it was before, while still being a absolute important factor in the combat. What amazes me is that, at the same time, the game is more readable AND is still allowing great freedom of swing manipulation.

The whole art departament is amazing too tbh, the dynamic wounds are 10/10, polax alt mode is nasty as fuck, and so is hiting a halberd slash in someone's face. The animations are noticeably better, great job tbh.

The voices are fucking great! I think they are absolutely in the right direction, we just need more "personalities" and more variation for the existing ones now. Btw, we absolutely need a voice command to "kill those goddamn archers", I felt literaly mute going against these fuckos

The crosshair, well, I think it is fucking great but we need to be able to customize a few things on it. I found the idea behind and the info it conveys great, but the implementation could have options related to its visibility. For instance, the little white thingy that shows the direction you are looking at is way too small and unoticeable. If I had the option, I would make it bigger and with a color that I can see without having to stop paying attention to the fight to look at the crosshair. Think about it, it is the most important when you are riposting or chambering, and these situations can and usually are intense as fuck, I don't have time to search my screen for indications, they must jump in my face.

Not everyone might agree with what I just said about the crosshair, and might preffer a cleaner version, this is why I ask for some customization for it. Tbh, I would suggest that the default configuration for the crosshair to be something that draws more attention, because it will be really helpfull for newer players, specially if the 240 system is going to be the default option for combat.

I think there is much more to say, but I'll play some more

Knight 5183 6949
  • 27 Aug '18
 Humble Staff

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
There's a few server issues on my end, more trouble connecting than before. Get a message saying 'timed out loading steam inventory' or something like that. Also infinite 'joining server' sometimes. Trying again a few times works eventually though.

Same here.
Also for TDM in grad, since now you can't use ranged weapons in the spawn, the attacking team (the one spawning outside the castle) can have their archers swarmed by players of the defending team
If they manage to push to their spawn.
Just saying, as an archer in that team, feels super weird and arbitrary not being able to shoot at the enemies 5 meters from you because you are in a spawn section that you can't easily recognize like say Contraband, where is clear that spawn is up there where the enemy can't reach you and you can't abuse ranged weaponry. I mean in grad you can get shot into your spawn and you can't retaliate lol.

Mercenary 1143 2088
  • 27 Aug '18
 TheKingInTheNorth

@Humble Staff said:

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
There's a few server issues on my end, more trouble connecting than before. Get a message saying 'timed out loading steam inventory' or something like that. Also infinite 'joining server' sometimes. Trying again a few times works eventually though.

Same here.
Also for TDM in grad, since now you can't use ranged weapons in the spawn, the attacking team (the one spawning outside the castle) can have their archers swarmed by players of the defending team
If they manage to push to their spawn.
Just saying, as an archer in that team, feels super weird and arbitrary not being able to shoot at the enemies 5 meters from you because you are in a spawn section that you can't easily recognize like say Contraband, where is clear that spawn is up there where the enemy can't reach you and you can't abuse ranged weaponry. I mean in grad you can get shot into your spawn and you can't retaliate lol.

Also an issue in camp TDM (the archer thing). The most irritating part is that enemies CAN use their bows in YOUR spawn, while you can't. Also there's some spots on the map where people can shoot into spawns on both sides. I got instakilled after spawning a few times already.

273 444
  • 27 Aug '18
 YOLANDIVISSER

I'll try to edit together a few longbow clips this week for a demonstration, but it's pretty darn powerful.

The projectile speed is so damn fast with longbow I feel like I can tag anyone on the map if I can see them. It's so fast that I would trade some projectile speed for slightly increased torso damage.

Knight 573 1164
  • 27 Aug '18
 JoBe

I feel like the billhook should have the ladder pull ability too. Is there any plans to add a one handed billhook? It could be awesome as a skin for the axe.

PT17-2

Knight 148 97
  • 28 Aug '18
 Lilboots

that new patch #17.1 fixing the LOD did wonders, server performance and even FPS issues have increased heaps. Playing with 150 bots right now and dropped 30fps opposed to 100fps.

Cheers for that, makes server owners erect

Knight 33 56
  • 28 Aug '18
 ChemicalDruid

btw, i have to complain about the fact that we can no longer have no pants equipped. which for my highlander build is a great loss... what kind of scotsman would wear a kilt (nordic skirt because there is nothing really ressembling a kilt) with pants?

Knight 928 2545
  • 1
  • 28 Aug '18
 Pred

While the update obviously brought a lot of content (voices, gore, maps and lute are all awesome, obviously), in terms of combat I see it as a few steps forward and a few steps backward. Some issues that seemed (to a varying degree) cointained were kinda brought back, hopefully not for long though. Helicoptering and 180 runaways are back, as well as folding in half like a chair and looking for some change at the ground when falling for a feint or panic parrying. I think these types of things should be toned down as much as possible, as they are guaranteed to trigger casuals and muh realism fans.

Don't know what to think of the whole chamber change right now, post-chamber game I thought was the key to this fights look like fights thing, except it obviously needed tweaking as chambers just led to more chambers and provoked excessive dragging, but otherwise it was the coolest and best looking part of the game that made the 1v1 really feel real-life'y to an extent due to the constant weapon collision. Now it seems we are taking a turn to Chivalry and alternating feints which is pretty meh if you ask me. Disregarding everything that has been said about feints during the years and noobs getting triggered, I think the main issue with feints is that they are just not really interesting and cool looking and don't produce that epic feeling of clanking back and forth. I feint. Oh you do nothing. So I feint again. You fall for it. So I get a hit and win a right to maybe feint again after I combo and snap my head violently. That's cool.

Not a fan of increase in clashes - they are cool the first few times you see them, after that they are just a boring race to the first hit and add some unnecessary randomness when they happen too frequently.

I would still like more constistency in mechanics. One example that if find pretty infuriating is that you are pretty much not allowed to chamber morph one handers because they just counter chamber the first attack and land a hit before your morph so you are either locked in chamber exchange with a lightspeed toothpick or risk a parry. The feint punishing is not very clear as well, right now it seems like you can somewhat reliably counter slower or similar weapons (as opposed to only much slower ones in earlier patches), I'm not sure yet. The point is, it's not ideal when the "global mechanics" are so all over the place and you need to study some spreadsheets and advanced info to find that "oh, I should definitely NOT try to punish Arming Sword with a Bardiche".

Archery I find super easy and the same point and click as in Chivalry. Sway seems almost not existent to me and the range + speed is absurd, you pretty much cover the whole enclosure of Camp or Grad. Huntsman seems to be the only saving grace, as it is actually worth it to prioritize shooting other archers, but we already saw in Chivalry how the "you need archers to counter archers" idea works (not well).

Also one small thing that I don't like and that seems destined to stay is how beneficial is winding up stabs while looking at the ground. Looks super stupid.

Duke 2266 4009
  • 28 Aug '18
 Huggles

"I don't like feints because they remove back and forth exchanges that look and feel like a sick sword fight."

ok, fine

"Increase clashes are bad."

wait wut

Knight 936 949
  • 28 Aug '18
 afiNity

Didn't touch the game in the last 6 months. With the new patch the movement feels much better. Archery feels nice too. Good job

Knight 928 2545
  • 28 Aug '18
 Pred

@Huggles said:
"I don't like feints because they remove back and forth exchanges that look and feel like a sick sword fight."

ok, fine

"Increase clashes are bad."

wait wut

You don't see the difference between an exchange of chambers, chamber morphs and chamber feints and a button mashing contest of clashes?

Duke 2266 4009
  • 28 Aug '18
 Huggles

@Pred said:

@Huggles said:
"I don't like feints because they remove back and forth exchanges that look and feel like a sick sword fight."

ok, fine

"Increase clashes are bad."

wait wut

You don't see the difference between an exchange of chambers, chamber morphs and chamber feints and a button mashing contest of clashes?

In past patches, chamber exchanges had the same staring at your opponent and waiting till the last possible moment "issue" that feints have. The more steps added to the move in question, the more backpedaling and doing nothing. This very passive, reactionary, and delayed style of gameplay that is inherent to how the mechanics of mordhau work are what you criticize when you talk about feints.

Clashes are the only mechanic that avoid this passive turn taking.

I just find it very odd that the only mechanic that fundamentally avoids what you find boring about feints is the mechanic you find problematic atm.

Btw, footwork, attack angling, and body manipulation all play into clashes and it is not really random at all. Plus you can always tell if you are about to lose the clash pretty early on and just ftp out.