Mordhau

Community dev blog #2

112 273
  • 2
  • 30 Jul
 Koda

So drags are gonna be stronger against parry now?

Fuck. Fuck. And who's ever gonna use chambers now?

More importantly, I think first miss should cost more stamina, not remain the same. No decent player is going to miss twice in a row. I don't think I've seen someone miss twice in a row in a high level fight yet. It's always miss once then easily ftp the counter hit. Now with a big stam pool it will hardly matter, making matrix and duck even more worthless.

Mercenary 763 1267

Questioning some of the changes, but that's why it's an alpha I guess. Big thanks for doing this blog though, without these updates my hype has been at an all time low.

Knight 1673 1956
  • 31 Jul
 Void

Good work Zombie and friends
Also devs, thx for the clarifications and the extra info
Keep up the hype

112 273
  • 2 Aug
 Koda

Can someone explain to me how we're going to be punishing feints? Right now it's a no risk move and the only thing helping soften their power is chambering.

There is no window after someone performs a feint that the other player can hit unless he gambles before the feint even happens. What is the reward if you successfully read a feint? You don't even get initiative...

Baron 1293 3762
  • 2 Aug
 Lincs

@Koda said:
Can someone explain to me how we're going to be punishing feints? Right now it's a no risk move and the only thing helping soften their power is chambering.

There is no window after someone performs a feint that the other player can hit unless he gambles before the feint even happens. What is the reward if you successfully read a feint? You don't even get initiative...

This is probably the number one thing bothering me too tbh. You go to punish an easily readable feint or a whiff, and a good opponent will just cancel their followup into a parry. Mind numbingly frustrating tbh

Duke 2141 3554
  • 2 Aug
 Huggles

@Koda said:
Can someone explain to me how we're going to be punishing feints? Right now it's a no risk move and the only thing helping soften their power is chambering.

There is no window after someone performs a feint that the other player can hit unless he gambles before the feint even happens. What is the reward if you successfully read a feint? You don't even get initiative...

Kick + distance management + footwork + reading then punishing with the inside angle.

It is my understanding that kick is dramatically buffed next patch in speed and stam dmg and you can feint out of it, this will allow it to be a solid range buffer and a very consistent way to punish feint.

112 273
  • 2 Aug
 Koda

Huggles any good player knows to feint out of kick range.

Knight 561 1414
  • 2 Aug
 Pred

Hey community community managers, was there recently any talk anywhere if the next patch is still months or weeks away? The 40% date Jax gave a month ago is on 4th August and I don't wan't to go back to thinking "maybe today?" every day for the next 4 weeks if possible.

Thank you.

1160 2593
  • 2 Aug
 Monsteri

The devs were posting thinking emojis in the discord so uh hh basically tomorrow yes

160 572
  • 2 Aug
 Cswic

See you on patch day next Tuesday.

Duke 2141 3554
  • 2 Aug
 Huggles

@Koda said:
Huggles any good player knows to feint out of kick range.

if you feint out of kick range it is much easier to read and with the majority of weapons you are out of range for the followup so it can be easily backpedaled.

Duke 6669 9144
  • 2 Aug
 Sir Zombie

@Pred said:
Hey community community managers, was there recently any talk anywhere if the next patch is still months or weeks away? The 40% date Jax gave a month ago is on 4th August and I don't wan't to go back to thinking "maybe today?" every day for the next 4 weeks if possible.

Thank you.

Crush said 90% 2 days ago but devs aren't a reliable source tbch

112 273
 Koda

@Huggles said:

@Koda said:
Huggles any good player knows to feint out of kick range.

if you feint out of kick range it is much easier to read and with the majority of weapons you are out of range for the followup so it can be easily backpedaled.

You get in range, you do your feint, and back up as soon as you do the feint. It's still hard to read, and then you are out of kick range by the time they do read it, if they do, but within range of a followup.

Are you saying most weapons are shorter than kick range? You just gotta find that sweetspot, too far to be kicked during that vulnerable moment, close enough to hit them, and you gotta time it right so your feint actually happens while within range. Might sound like a lot to think about during your feint but honestly it's not, it's very easy to do.

The only way to be punished for feinting using this method is by a gamble, before you actually do the feint, while you're in the kick range, but not by an actual read.

1160 2593
  • 2 Aug
 Monsteri

@Koda said:

@Huggles said:

@Koda said:
Huggles any good player knows to feint out of kick range.

if you feint out of kick range it is much easier to read and with the majority of weapons you are out of range for the followup so it can be easily backpedaled.

You get in range, you do your feint, and back up as soon as you do the feint. It's still hard to read, and then you are out of kick range by the time they do read it, if they do, but within range of a followup.

Are you saying most weapons are shorter than kick range? You just gotta find that sweetspot, too far to be kicked during that vulnerable moment, close enough to hit them, and you gotta time it right so your feint actually happens while within range. Might sound like a lot to think about during your feint but honestly it's not, it's very easy to do.

The only way to be punished for feinting using this method is by a gamble, before you actually do the feint, while you're in the kick range, but not by an actual read.

But you have to run at someone while idle to properly utilize the feint as you describe it? It's not in any way a gamble if you seize initiative from a slow player. The only issue currently is that the kick is slow so it's easy to pretend to be running in idle to feint, only to change direction and force a kick whiff on the defender. That's why you don't see it as much, the counter to this counter is too strong.

And in either case you won't just easily run into and out of facehug against any competent player. Doing this kind of feint untelegraphedly (so you don't get initiative stolen) takes actual skill.

Knight 2261 5610

ok i just wanna say that zomboboy and his crew are goid ppl and di the giid job

Knight 2261 5610

suka my typos

Count 21 78
  • 3 Aug
 June

@Cswic said:
See you on patch day next Tuesday.

This man knows whats up, see you boys then.

Duke 2141 3554
  • 3 Aug
 Huggles

@Koda said:

@Huggles said:

@Koda said:
Huggles any good player knows to feint out of kick range.

if you feint out of kick range it is much easier to read and with the majority of weapons you are out of range for the followup so it can be easily backpedaled.

You get in range, you do your feint, and back up as soon as you do the feint. It's still hard to read, and then you are out of kick range by the time they do read it, if they do, but within range of a followup.

Are you saying most weapons are shorter than kick range? You just gotta find that sweetspot, too far to be kicked during that vulnerable moment, close enough to hit them, and you gotta time it right so your feint actually happens while within range. Might sound like a lot to think about during your feint but honestly it's not, it's very easy to do.

The only way to be punished for feinting using this method is by a gamble, before you actually do the feint, while you're in the kick range, but not by an actual read.

The kick is to avoid hard reading. The kick next patch is going to be fast, likely faster than windup.

Knight 13 10
  • 3 Aug
 Kevali

the lute is the sole reason i bought this game

275 455

@crushed said:
You actually cannot morph at 0 stamina anymore, that has been removed for consistency. You can now punish morphs often with the kick, which is significantly faster (aswell as other things). Morphs and feints becoming more meta is intended with these combat changes, both mechanics had their windows buffed 50ms. If the morph stamina cost is too low remains to be seen.

Glancing blow flinches now.

Shield box is bigger because it now uses the new parry which has been reworked. Shields are now better at what they intend to do (prolong the life of a shield user), and have offensive downsides. Holding a shield in hand will now give you a movement debuff, as in reduce movement base speed % similar to armor, with the amount changing depending on how big the shields are. Shield blocked recovery was also reduced, allowing you to attack hesitant shield users faster. We're still looking into a mechanic which would allow shield users to be opened up, and more differences between each shield.

As for stamina, disarms are more punishing now, and give 1 confirmed hit. There is no more 0 stamina chamber, so no more ways to defend yourself without wasting resources. This is an important change and will get rid of the "useless" attack feel for attacks that got chambered. Miss stamina cost for two misses in a row with the same combo has been increased significantly and missing multiple times in a row with the same combo is now the fastest way to lose your stamina. Regular miss cost for initial attacks has not been increased. The stamina breathing sound start was lowered which makes it easier to pressure someone once you hear it.

As a result of these changes, stamina pool was increased, for parries around 33-40%. You gain 10 stamina on hit which is experimental, but has several implications. First of all, in theory, it allows you to keep going infinitely as long as you play perfectly, similar to how 0 stamina chambers, in theory, allowed you to keep going infinitely. Now that chambers cost stamina, it replaces that but in a different way. I believe this concept is important to preserve and was an appealing part of chambers.

It allows you to start a combo if you hit someone with 0 stamina, which gets rid of the clunky feel and adds serious comeback potential, which fits together with the new more punishing disarms. Offensively, it buffs correct play and makes the other offensive tools as "optimal" to use as drags. Defensively, it buffs active punishment (punishing a feint now means the enemy loses stamina, and you gain) - and nerfs passive stamina warfare. Stamina warfare is definitely still a thing, but we do not want stamina to feel like a "time limit", if we wanted that, you would lose stamina for hits, which would be quite bad. This also adds some momentum to duels, and allow you to snowball.

It is simply a way to buff stamina and give more options to players without buffing passive stamina pool into huge amounts. That said its experimental and there are probably implications which are not seen yet without longer testing. The amount is also not set in stone, we will test it with 10 stamina first, and see if that is maybe too much and if yes, reduce it to 5.

So in short, players have more freedom when it comes to offensive and defensive stamina, disarms are more rare but more punishing, missing constantly is punished much harsher.

The hyperarmor riposte you might not agree with, thats fine, but its simply a consistent way to add risk to mindlessly spamming the 1 in a 1vX. It is not supposed to make you auto win 1vX, it is supposed to give you a better chance and give a serious risk and downside to the most unskilled way to fight the 1 in 1vX.

That said, in short, the next patch will bring more freedom, more playstyles and generally be less limiting to players. Offense will be stronger, defense will be more consistent and easier and the "drag constantly to avoid chamber" meta is heavily reduced/removed.

I find the damage reduction on riposte questionable but I suppose that's not really going to be an issue either way. Love pretty much all the changes and I do believe this will make alternative playstyles more viable. I want to finally fix my computer in anticipation of this next patch.