Mordhau

Homage to the Current Kick

Knight 1269 3804
2375 4819
  • 11 Jun '18
 Maci

I don't see any problem here

t. crush

396 453
  • 1
  • 11 Jun '18
 JasonBourne

"The kick in patch #14 wasnt satisfying enough"

~ Crush

  • 11 Jun '18
 JasonBourne
This comment was deleted.
  • 11 Jun '18
 JasonBourne
This comment was deleted.
Knight 1269 3804
  • 11 Jun '18
 Frise

@JasonBourne said:
"The kick in patch #14 wasnt satisfying enough"

~ Crush

Obviously, being able to punish feints and bad delays for 15 damage and stam advantage isn't fun enough; We need a kick that you can't land without gambling and that gives you guaranteed headshots because our target audience is baboons.

1308 2875
  • 11 Jun '18
 Monsteri

Other than the jump kicks there was nothing wrong in this video

80 285
  • 1
  • 11 Jun '18
 wizardish

It is quite unfortunate that 99% of kicks on the current build are gambles since the mechanic has little consistency using them or defending versus them. I actually find jump kicks a lot easier to defend against/punish because they convey speed and visually match more accurately than just normal non-jump kicks. I think since jump kicks have become popular I've only been successfully jump kicked once or twice.

Of course, this will hopefully change.

Knight 1269 3804
  • 2
  • 11 Jun '18
 Frise

@Monsteri said:
Other than the jump kicks there was nothing wrong in this video

0:05 - I started the kick before he morphed, and was relying on him doing so to hit him. That's a gamble. Furthermore, he's backpedalling and I hit his hand while he was stabbing. Bullshiterino buddy.

0:13 - Had he not morphed, I wouldn't have hit him. Even though I punished him for non-riposting, it was a gamble because I wouldn't have landed it if he hadn't morphed. Same thing in the next clip, but this time I'm rewarded with 90 damage because lol stun.

0:30 - Same thing. Attempted to punish him for not riposting, but only got the kick to land because he morphed. AKA punishing with kick requires gambling.

0:36 - Bro come on lmao, he goes to punish my feint and I was able to gamble kick him lmao come on dude lmao what the fuck is this.

0:55 - Same thing. With patch 14 kick, it would have been a guaranteed punish on my end. But with the new kick, I had to get lucky and hope for him to delay.

1:10 - I just gambled. As soon as he winded up the stab I kicked. I only got the hit because he morphed. And I got rewarded with an instant win. (naked head is irrelevant, same outcome with maul even if he had t3 head)

1:30 - Bruh she was backpedalling and stabbing me and I still got a kick on her.

1:35 - Straight up gamble again.

The other ones are just entertainment or whatever.

Notice how all of these moments where I punished my opponent for not being proactive, I was depending on them delaying or morphing, whereas in patch 14, I could just punish them consistently. Also notice how this kick encourages you to gamble because you get a guaranteed headshot.

Also take into account that kickstun makes jump kicks a ridiculously powerful cheese in teamfights, instead of just silly cheese.

Knight 693 1593
  • 2
  • 11 Jun '18
 das

My attitude towards kicks when using Zwei: "Kicks are fine and balanced. Just play your distance, any time you get kicked during a morph or drag, you were gambling too by being too close and blindly thinking your morph/drag would hit without looking at what the enemy is doing, which is a gamble in itself. Furthermore, you need better spacing."

My attitude towards kicks when using an axe/1h: god DAMN IT

Knight 685 1851
  • 11 Jun '18
 ÐMontyleGueux

@Frise said:

@Monsteri said:
Other than the jump kicks there was nothing wrong in this video

0:05 - I started the kick before he morphed, and was relying on him doing so to hit him. That's a gamble. Furthermore, he's backpedalling and I hit his hand while he was stabbing. Bullshiterino buddy.

0:13 - Had he not morphed, I wouldn't have hit him. Even though I punished him for non-riposting, it was a gamble because I wouldn't have landed it if he hadn't morphed. Same thing in the next clip, but this time I'm rewarded with 90 damage because lol stun.

0:30 - Same thing. Attempted to punish him for not riposting, but only got the kick to land because he morphed. AKA punishing with kick requires gambling.

0:36 - Bro come on lmao, he goes to punish my feint and I was able to gamble kick him lmao come on dude lmao what the fuck is this.

0:55 - Same thing. With patch 14 kick, it would have been a guaranteed punish on my end. But with the new kick, I had to get lucky and hope for him to delay.

1:10 - I just gambled. As soon as he winded up the stab I kicked. I only got the hit because he morphed. And I got rewarded with an instant win. (naked head is irrelevant, same outcome with maul even if he had t3 head)

1:30 - Bruh she was backpedalling and stabbing me and I still got a kick on her.

1:35 - Straight up gamble again.

The other ones are just entertainment or whatever.

Notice how all of these moments where I punished my opponent for not being proactive, I was depending on them delaying or morphing, whereas in patch 14, I could just punish them consistently. Also notice how this kick encourages you to gamble because you get a guaranteed headshot.

Also take into account that kickstun makes jump kicks a ridiculously powerful cheese in teamfights, instead of just silly cheese.

They will remove the jump kick in the next patch, hopefully for good. But if it comes back, it will be with proper animation and no kick stun.

My issue with the kick stun is how unilateral it is. It's a big risk against a long weapon that can punish your failed kick at a safe distance, but infuriating to deal with while using a short weapon. I can easily bait a chamber attempt and gamble kick it if my opponent's weapon is too short to backpedal with. It's also insanely strong against lighter armor tiers, who will literallly die after a single kick in most cases.

In short, playing light armor with a short weapon will just get you killed over and over by kicks.

1308 2875
  • 2
  • 11 Jun '18
 Monsteri

There's little punishment for morphs except gambling, you could achieve the same thing doing a normal attack. It's just gamble vs gamble here, they morph without initiative while pushing into you, you kick knowing it'll only succeed if they delay. It's not really a problem, ultimately it's better for the game that low effort morphs have at least some inherent risk.

0:36 it was a chamber feint..

Hand hits are bs and need to go, yes, but this wasn't really the main point in your video. The decreased overall range will warrant a small speed buff as well so that kicks can be used as a general-purpose punish more often.

@ÐMontyleGueux said:
In short, playing light armor with a short weapon will just get you killed over and over by kicks.

I don't think this type of build is supposed to be very strong in combat. Leaves you a lot of points so it would clearly be a utility/perk focused loadout.

Though I would love to see some kind of shoulder bash that soft counters the kick and can be used to punish kick gambles. They'd be very short range and essentially require both players to be pushing into each other, but also really quick so you could proactively punish any lazy facehug attacks. The shoulder bash wouldn't clash with the kick but just utilize FHF, which would make it superior up close but worse at a distance.

Conscript 677 1495
  • 11 Jun '18
 ohshitsorry

I love the commentary.

Knight 1269 3804
  • 1
  • 11 Jun '18
 Frise

@Monsteri said:
There's little punishment for morphs except gambling, you could achieve the same thing doing a normal attack.

No, you can't, not with big weapons. In patch 14, kick allowed these slow weapons to punish slow players without having to gamble. Now, it just gives you a huge incentive to gamble because you get a free headshot. You can't punish by reaction with the new kick, you can only land it by gambling.

It's just gamble vs gamble here, they morph without initiative while pushing into you

Look at the clips. They weren't pushing into me aggresively or facehugging. They simply decided to morph and I gambled. I didn't see that they were morphing/delaying/getting close and then react and punish, I just gambled as soon as they attacked because it gives me a free headshot.

Old kick = useful resource for punishing loads of things
New kick = Gives huge gambling potential to weapons that can oneshot.

Sellsword 615 1380
  • 11 Jun '18
 BobSapp

I don't like the stun, personally, but it's less about the stun and more about how there's no dynamic for landing a kick other than going "please walk into this". Even in the most kick likely situation you're still taking a massive risk. There's nothing to play around here anymore and that's what I miss about the old one, it had more of an actual dynamic (pardon the three dollar word again) as to when you would see it and when you could use it.

That was the gameplay. I feel like the current one doesn't actually have any gameplay, if that makes sense

1308 2875
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  • 11 Jun '18
 Monsteri

@Frise said:
New kick = Gives huge gambling potential to weapons that can oneshot.

A non-issue once handhits are removed.

@BobSapp said:
That was the gameplay. I feel like the current one doesn't actually have any gameplay, if that makes sense

The old kick had a more defined role, currently it's a bit more spread out and niche in use.

Baron 1551 2083
  • 3
  • 11 Jun '18
 yourcrippledson

TO BE HONEST a lot of these were their gambles as much as yours, and if they didn't thoughtlessly morph when they should KNOW you can kick them and punish them severely for the thoughtless facehugging morph, (which they could have feinted out of in time if they were watching you closely instead of looking at the sky or ground to get ready for a drag) they could have reacted in time to avoid the stun punishment. (This is also an issue with the current resolution setup, preventing you from seeing the enemies feet, even at max fov)

Jump kicking is gey. Hand hits are gey. And much of the cause for why I don't enjoy playing the game currently.
I do miss old kick, cause I knew when to use it. And with this kick, I only feel safe using it against nubs.

Entertaining video though.

Duke 2266 4007
  • 11 Jun '18
 Huggles

Old kick was more useful and less annoying and had a clear role.

New kick is LESS useful and MORE annoying and does not have ANY role.

Why the fuck is this even a debate for people tbh.

Knight 5103 6844
  • 11 Jun '18
 Humble Staff

Hearing Wolframio raging and screeching boludo when Frise rekts him gives me strenght to keep living. Also that handsome noob with targe and spear is me, Hi mom!

Knight 26 83
  • 1
  • 12 Jun '18
 GucciLoafers

I would argue that kicks in their current state can be gambles if done incorrectly. They feel like a soft counter to facehug and a hard counter to predictability. It definitely needs work to make it more viable though, at the moment the risk is too great.