Mordhau

I Believe We Should Remove Combo Feint To Parry.

177 457
  • 8 Jun '18
 Koda

When gameplay changes, obviously there needs to be a balance pass on it. I'm not saying do this and game will be perfect, but all of the problems I see are very easily balanced in simple ways. The 180 run-away for example, there's so many easy ways to fix that. But I played all day yesterday with people using executioner vs executioner and it wasn't an issue. Some people tried to do the 180 thing to prove a point (naleaus) and it failed consistently. Just need to make spinning around 180 degrees reset your acceleration timer like how it should intuitively and realistically.

3 0
  • 8 Jun '18
 Moo5e

Maybe just remove one button CFTP, would take a bit longer to do and be slightly easier to punish

3 0
  • 8 Jun '18
 Moo5e

Removing combo on miss could be cool though. higher risk, but higher reward if you perfect your footwork and know the weapon ranges really well. would be a bit like jedi academy where good footwork is the most important thing to have.

3 0
  • 8 Jun '18
 Moo5e

It could add a small amount of skill to comboing by being unable to queue attacks before they make contact.

Duke 5552 13281
  • 1
  • 9 Jun '18
 Jax — Community Manager

We can fix too much safety on missing without affecting cftp, which we will be looking into.

Flat-out removing cftp would be like trying to sculpt a statue with a jackhammer :D

177 457
  • 10 Jun '18
 Koda

@Jax said:
We can fix too much safety on missing without affecting cftp, which we will be looking into.

Flat-out removing cftp would be like trying to sculpt a statue with a jackhammer :D

That's good to hear. BTW I don't want to flat out remove CFTP, only remove it on misses. Keep it for successful hits. I know the title suggests I just want it gone, that was my bad. But at the end of the post I mention removing it for misses. I'm glad to hear that you are looking to make misses punishable though, that's sick

  • 10 Jun '18
 Koda
This comment was deleted.
Baron 1551 2087
  • 10 Jun '18
 yourcrippledson

@Jax said:
We can fix too much safety on missing without affecting cftp, which we will be looking into.

Flat-out removing cftp would be like trying to sculpt a statue with a jackhammer :D

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We will not compromise

2 0
  • 21 Aug '19
 Sorry

I completely agree, especially with some weapon combinations such as war axe, alt battle axe, arming sword or even bastard sword cftp allows for obnoxiously spamy play styles. Increasing the reward of doge based play styles ensures that removing cftp isn't going to crash the skill cap, and it'll force ALOT of players to actually think about their actions rather than keeping their scroll wheel spinning indefinitely and right clicking occasionally. I don't think there is anything wrong with a "free hit" as punishment for swinging and missing, especially when ducking, dodging, even backing off means that that hit isn't entirely free.

2 0
  • 21 Aug '19
 Sorry

@GIRUGIRU said:
No CFTP is awful, all it constitutes is people missing and then running away (which looks dumb), chambers become cancer because it's way riskier to commit to big drags so as a result chambering becomes way easier. 1vX goes down the shitter because comboing just becomes a reckless idea when you're fighting multiple enemies, and you also massively drop the skill ceiling because being able to punish misses is a skill in itself. XvX meta would forever just involve people wanting to take long weapons and poke from distance

No CFTP was tried in chiv and it completely killed the game, it's a shit idea and it will never work. The freedom of attack cancelling is the glue to the game and shouldn't be flat out removed, ever.

Forcing someone to CFTP in a 1v1 scenario can win you most duels because of how expensive it is. Assuming all stamina costs are 7:
7(miss) + 7(combo) + 7(feint), + 7(parry) = 28. That's ALOT of stamina to be throwing away

Ontop of that you can drag, feint, "waterfall, morph, morph drag and kick someone who lost initiative from missing. If you feel that you make enemies miss alot but can't get the punish, use faster weps because you can definitely punish misses in this game if you know what you're doing. If you're worried about people gambling, you can just safely rape their stamina with a simple accelerated attack, not a big deal

"if you're enemies miss a lot but can't get the punish, use faster weapons" you're solutions is to completely decimate the effective weapon pool, hmm definitely sounds a balanced approach. Also I would argue that 1vX should not be easy at all, comboing should be a reckless high risk high reward mechanic, not the go to standard play with cftp in your pocket to save your ass. let this skill cap come from footwork, positioning and well executed attacks and block, the current attack spam and cftp is getting old fast

19 12

@Sorry said:

@GIRUGIRU said:
No CFTP is awful, all it constitutes is people missing and then running away (which looks dumb), chambers become cancer because it's way riskier to commit to big drags so as a result chambering becomes way easier. 1vX goes down the shitter because comboing just becomes a reckless idea when you're fighting multiple enemies, and you also massively drop the skill ceiling because being able to punish misses is a skill in itself. XvX meta would forever just involve people wanting to take long weapons and poke from distance

No CFTP was tried in chiv and it completely killed the game, it's a shit idea and it will never work. The freedom of attack cancelling is the glue to the game and shouldn't be flat out removed, ever.

Forcing someone to CFTP in a 1v1 scenario can win you most duels because of how expensive it is. Assuming all stamina costs are 7:
7(miss) + 7(combo) + 7(feint), + 7(parry) = 28. That's ALOT of stamina to be throwing away

Ontop of that you can drag, feint, "waterfall, morph, morph drag and kick someone who lost initiative from missing. If you feel that you make enemies miss alot but can't get the punish, use faster weps because you can definitely punish misses in this game if you know what you're doing. If you're worried about people gambling, you can just safely rape their stamina with a simple accelerated attack, not a big deal

"if you're enemies miss a lot but can't get the punish, use faster weapons" you're solutions is to completely decimate the effective weapon pool, hmm definitely sounds a balanced approach. Also I would argue that 1vX should not be easy at all, comboing should be a reckless high risk high reward mechanic, not the go to standard play with cftp in your pocket to save your ass. let this skill cap come from footwork, positioning and well executed attacks and block, the current attack spam and cftp is getting old fast

Except 1vX situations against even marginally skilled opponents is incredibly difficult as it is, removing CFTP would make them nearly impossible.

Also, CFTP is almost required for countering long, stabby weapons. How else do you approach if someone is simply stabbing, pushing you back and backpedaling? You can never regain initiative if you have to approach defensively the entire time.

Knight 337 777
  • 21 Aug '19
 AngelEyes

This boy just just put you down like a dirty dog JIROO you either come back to defend your honor or if you don’t respond you forfeit by default coward

20 28
  • 22 Aug '19
 AjaxTheLesser

because people did it in real life.

Knight 2306 4188
  • 22 Aug '19
 Runagate

Your stam gets raped if you keep spamming cftp. If someone has to cftp they end up with a significant stamina disadvantage.

I used to think it was a bad mechanic but I'm not retarded anymore.

86 42
  • 23 Aug '19
 Badass_Ben

Forgive me, im a little bad with terminology

So CFTP is combo-feint-to-parry

Specifically, are we talking about the "issue" of players being able to parry, despite having committed to an attack?

Are we talking how if someone misses swing "1" and combos into swing "2", an opponent trying to LOGICALLY go in for the stab between swings (IRL a very good opening) they can still magically parry instantly, despite their weapon being out of position to do so?

Not quite following

36 37
  • 23 Aug '19
 Fred Dawes

@Badass_Ben said:
Forgive me, im a little bad with terminology

So CFTP is combo-feint-to-parry

Specifically, are we talking about the "issue" of players being able to parry, despite having committed to an attack?

Are we talking how if someone misses swing "1" and combos into swing "2", an opponent trying to LOGICALLY go in for the stab between swings (IRL a very good opening) they can still magically parry instantly, despite their weapon being out of position to do so?

Not quite following

Yes. CFTP is an unintuitive game mechanic that recovers initiative from a missed attack at a high stamina cost when performed successfully.

Personally I think it's fine as is. It costs tons of stam and can be baited at the comp level to get hit anyway.

86 42
  • 23 Aug '19
 Badass_Ben

@Fred Dawes said:

@Badass_Ben said:
Forgive me, im a little bad with terminology

So CFTP is combo-feint-to-parry

Specifically, are we talking about the "issue" of players being able to parry, despite having committed to an attack?

Are we talking how if someone misses swing "1" and combos into swing "2", an opponent trying to LOGICALLY go in for the stab between swings (IRL a very good opening) they can still magically parry instantly, despite their weapon being out of position to do so?

Not quite following

Yes. CFTP is an unintuitive game mechanic that recovers initiative from a missed attack at a high stamina cost when performed successfully.

Personally I think it's fine as is. It costs tons of stam and can be baited at the comp level to get hit anyway.

I guess I don't like it for the simple fact it seems kinda fucked up in a sword game for one of THE most textbook openings to take advantage of, can get so easily blocked (if im thinking of the right thing)

404 607
  • 23 Aug '19
 smug

This isn't a hema simulator.

8 3

I literally alt f4 when I saw how fucking insanely fast a guy with a claymore comboed into a parry. I literally ducked his attack and went already for a swing. But fucking no my son. Like some fucking shaolin monk he changed his stance and went full turtle parry and suddenly attacks me back like a flying tiger. Its so stupidly quick its not even funny.
That was probably the most fucked up shit I've seen yet.

Now its surely not the claymore itself, I've seen other idiotic moments with other weapons where you'd think you found a window to hit.
Thats the whole idea of "windows of opportunity"
A missed strike shouldnt be able to combo and thus not be able to parry. Or at least not give the option to parry until full , usual recovery.

201 403
  • 26 Aug '19
 serbish

i usually expect to get hit as fair punishment for missing an attack, im continually surprised at how lenient the cftp window is, and duels feel very unexciting to play for me lately its possibly due to this cftp safety net