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Some recordings from patch 15

Knight 941 2569
  • 21 Apr '18
 Pred

Some weird stuff I recorded in maybe 2 hours of playing this patch. I made sure to play on decent ping (mostly high 40s-60) and none of these players was much lower or higher.

  1. https://streamable.com/cs731

  2. https://streamable.com/qvab6

  3. https://streamable.com/agobx

Through FTP:

  1. https://streamable.com/btu58

  2. https://streamable.com/fflqi

  3. https://streamable.com/mv94j

Also random thought - Messer seems to be highly overrepresented in all hit desyncs that happen to me.

Knight 253 546
  • 2
  • 21 Apr '18
 Gauntlet

This information seems more like a discussion about online gaming not unique to Mordhau: there is latency, and latency does mean that the game will never be frame perfect. For user connections you can say you and your opponent had normal ranges for ping & pktloss but the game won't report small jitters that can affect the overall experience. Are you trying to suggest these desync strikes are entirely new to the game because of patch 15? Which mechanics do you think changed to cause more or less desync?

Also random thought - Messer seems to be highly overrepresented in all hit desyncs that happen to me.

This has been my experience as well. I think it has to do with the really short combo time for the messer. Sometimes a messer will miss their first strike that I'll parry at, and it feels like I just barely can get my parry timing back for the follow up.

Edit: Also what is your camera distance set to in your game settings?

Knight 941 2569
  • 1
  • 21 Apr '18
 Pred

@Gauntlet said:
This information seems more like a discussion about online gaming not unique to Mordhau: there is latency, and latency does mean that the game will never be frame perfect.

This is not a matter of frame perfect, stab in the clip #1 or clip #3 are absolutely nowhere near to where they should be when they start dealing damage, Chivalry got it right most of the time because these would be very bad even by its standards so I don't see we should just chalk it up as "this is an online game, has to be like that". And IF it HAS to be like that, maybe the overall philosophy of lightspeed hits and fingertip hitboxes should be revisited to offset that somehow.

Edit: Also what is your camera distance set to in your game settings?

0, 130 FOV.

Duke 2266 4010
  • 22 Apr '18
 Huggles

I can't really say I see anything out of the ordinary here. I just hear some sounds that seem really weird that I haven't heard much before. But to me it looks like you aren't really doing anything in almost all the clips...

Except for that 1 clip with the stabs, but that seems to be basic lag.

Knight 93 270
  • 22 Apr '18
 Nikosawa

look at that last guy its the beautiful Nikosawa [email protected] REKT !!

Knight 941 2569
  • 22 Apr '18
 Pred

@Nikosawa said:
look at that last guy its the beautiful Nikosawa [email protected] REKT !!

So handsome.

396 454
  • 22 Apr '18
 JasonBourne

Youre timing is a bit too late, keep in mind the latency too (with 0 ping the timing would be ok).

Latency is something that cant be fixed as for now, unless Elon Musk comes up with a new ping technology or something, so we must deal with it. A tip is, backpaddle while u parry and keep a little more distance can help.

988 6974
  • 22 Apr '18
 marox — Project Lead

@Pred said:
Some weird stuff I recorded in maybe 2 hours of playing this patch. I made sure to play on decent ping (mostly high 40s-60) and none of these players was much lower or higher.

  1. https://streamable.com/cs731

  2. https://streamable.com/qvab6

  3. https://streamable.com/agobx

Through FTP:

  1. https://streamable.com/btu58

  2. https://streamable.com/fflqi

  3. https://streamable.com/mv94j

Also random thought - Messer seems to be highly overrepresented in all hit desyncs that happen to me.

If at all possible, a way to replicate something that you feel is wrong would be great, I know that's not that easy to do, but it pinpoints the issue more exactly. Doing it in a more controlled environment makes it easy to spot what the issues are. In some of those clips I'm not even sure what's wrong exactly.

I guess you feel you're getting hit out of range? The FOV is quite high, so I'm not sure whether it's an artifact of that or not. Testing this while standing would be one way to find out, but please don't do it in local play, as the hitboxes there in 1P are different (3p is OK though). You might want to try moving the camera distance in (so positive, not negative) although the distance it goes is quite limited. It might not even be the standing hits that are problematic, in this case it might be that walking backwards and someone following you and hitting you with the tip of the weapon online causes this.

Knight 941 2569
  • 22 Apr '18
 Pred

@marox said:
If at all possible, a way to replicate something that you feel is wrong would be great, I know that's not that easy to do, but it pinpoints the issue more exactly. Doing it in a more controlled environment makes it easy to spot what the issues are. In some of those clips I'm not even sure what's wrong exactly.

I guess you feel you're getting hit out of range? The FOV is quite high, so I'm not sure whether it's an artifact of that or not.

Clip 1 - I actually forgot to say it in the first post, but I think the second OH after getting chambered was not caused by my imput but happened by itself and the animation (in result of that or not) is kind of weird. This happened to me one more time but I think deleted the clip. The stab obviously hits nothing but deals damage.

Clip 2 - Mace deals damage from away and not with the actual Mace but with handlehit. I know handlehits is a complicated issue, but still, it contributes to the overall insta-y feeling of the game.

Clip 3- hits air.

Clip 4 - goes through parry AND deals damage without contact.

There are more or less two points to that:

  1. I don't know if it's direclty related to FOV, but it feels like your hitboxes extend beyond your body, especially in front of your knuckles and it's not like a random desync once every 200 plays but rather a staple of the game. Visual cue you are given is that you have plenty of room and time to react (the "Not Hit" part) you actually don't have any. Don't know if pushing back hitbox on your hands and/or making an actual chunk of the weapon hit you before doing damage (rather than first pixel of a stab) are possible options or not, but it could at least help mitigate majority of the cases, when the attack is incoming from in front of you.

  2. There is something wrong with Messer because what is described in point 1 happens to involve Messer much more often and more pronounced than other weapons, especially when they miss an attack and combo.

Conscript 4564 6302
  • 22 Apr '18
 vanguard

Number 2 is a great example of what imho makes the combat annoying at the moment. Every weapon can do that given the right situation and once you keep expecting this to happen, everything else starts falling appart because the reaction needed to read if the attack will be this or a delay is just too pushing tbh. And consider how easy it is to pull this kind of attack, in relation to how hard it makes deffense overal to become.

Knight 26 83
  • 22 Apr '18
 GucciLoafers

1 = You attacked without initiative
2 = You attempted to chamber in lockout when you could have parried
3 = Git gud
4 = Latency
5 = You attempted to chamber in lockout when you could have parried
6 = Latency

988 6974
  • 23 Apr '18
 marox — Project Lead

@Pred said:

  1. I don't know if it's direclty related to FOV, but it feels like your hitboxes extend beyond your body, especially in front of your knuckles and it's not like a random desync once every 200 plays but rather a staple of the game. Visual cue you are given is that you have plenty of room and time to react (the "Not Hit" part) you actually don't have any. Don't know if pushing back hitbox on your hands and/or making an actual chunk of the weapon hit you before doing damage (rather than first pixel of a stab) are possible options or not, but it could at least help mitigate majority of the cases, when the attack is incoming from in front of you.

Adjusting the hitboxes in this case could lead to the other guy missing but it looking to him like the hit should've landed, although I agree the hits do feel disconnected, especially the mace hit. The only sensible solution other than hitbox adjustments (which might not help enough) would be to move the 1P model (and with it the camera) further in, but this would reduce some of the visual distance which might make it harder to see things to some degree.

  1. There is something wrong with Messer because what is described in point 1 happens to involve Messer much more often and more pronounced than other weapons, especially when they miss an attack and combo.

The only real difference with the messer is the model/tracers and obviously attack timings, the tracers and model seem fine and nothing particularly weird is done there, only other thing would be the timings.

Knight 941 2569
  • 23 Apr '18
 Pred

@GucciLoafers said:
1 = You attacked without initiative
2 = You attempted to chamber in lockout when you could have parried
3 = Git gud
4 = Latency
5 = You attempted to chamber in lockout when you could have parried
6 = Latency

lol what?

There is always one I guess.

Git smurt.

Knight 941 2569
  • 23 Apr '18
 Pred

@marox said:
The only real difference with the messer is the model/tracers and obviously attack timings, the tracers and model seem fine and nothing particularly weird is done there, only other thing would be the timings.

Hmmm, what about the guard, is there a tracer there? The knife-like one doesn't have guard so maybe it's misleading somehow if it's using the same tracers as the one with guard? I dunno, from the patch that introduced Messer something felt wrong for me, maybe its general floatiness or how it skips from super slow to super fast is causing it to have more blatant instahits than other weapons.

988 6974
  • 23 Apr '18
 marox — Project Lead

@Pred said:

@marox said:
The only real difference with the messer is the model/tracers and obviously attack timings, the tracers and model seem fine and nothing particularly weird is done there, only other thing would be the timings.

Hmmm, what about the guard, is there a tracer there? The knife-like one doesn't have guard so maybe it's misleading somehow if it's using the same tracers as the one with guard?

No tracer on the guard, it's pretty much identical to the other tracer setups for swords

Count 671 1131
  • 23 Apr '18
 Zexis

as the hitboxes there in 1P are different (3p is OK though)

How are the 1P hitboxes different on local play?

988 6974
  • 23 Apr '18
 marox — Project Lead

@Zexis said:

as the hitboxes there in 1P are different (3p is OK though)

How are the 1P hitboxes different on local play?

They use the 1p animations in local play, hitboxes otherwise are based on 3p animations (on dedicated servers).

Mercenary 15 23
  • 26 Apr '18
 DoubleTrouble

Damn my Messer build is fucking sexy