Mordhau

According to Crush, there's lag compensation for chambering inputs

Knight 828 2154
  • 21 Apr
 Frise

But then this shit happens all the fucking time on consistent 56 ping, yay!

So what is it, is there lag compensation? Do I need to chamber super early, making it impossible to chamber without gambling? Am I the only retard that this happens to? Do I need to buy a 1024hz monitor and overclock my mouse for my inputs to register?

Duke 5134 11071
  • 21 Apr
 Jax — Community Manager

idk why you're trying to chamber that late man

Knight 828 2154
  • 1
  • 21 Apr
 Frise

Because that's how you read shit. Especially considering you can go from accel to delay in less than 10 frames. Why should I chamber earlier? If it was designed that way, then fine, that's the rules of the game. But that's not how the game is designed; The idea is that you press a button, you throw an attack, and you can chamber during the first 200ms or so. Nobody said that the first 20ms don't count.

I was told there was lag compensation for this case, and that it shouldn't happen. Yet, it happens all the time. So wassup? Did crush just lie to me? But hey it doesn't matter that there's an issue with the game I can just parry amirite

Conscript 4227 5324
  • 21 Apr
 vanguard

Because if he tries to chamber earlier, I can just delay his ass. He knew I was going to accel, didn't chambered anyways because the game didnt got his imput. This actualy explains why it is so fuckingcancerous trying to chamber fast attacks.

Duke 5134 11071
  • 21 Apr
 Jax — Community Manager

chambering =/= reading

if he goes for a delay, you can just FTP out of it

Knight 828 2154
  • 1
  • 21 Apr
 Frise

I perfectly read all those attacks though :)

so basically though, chambering is officially a matter of gambling. Good to know, that's a great mindset for a serious competitive game.

Conscript 4227 5324
  • 21 Apr
 vanguard

But Jaxsons, what is happening here is that, he read my attack, made the imput but it didn't registered. What if it was a very late parry for example?

Duke 5134 11071
  • 21 Apr
 Jax — Community Manager

he may have read the attack but he didn't time it right.
if we were all at a Mordhau LAN, sure you should be able to chamber with the 1st ms of your chamber window.
That isn't the case though, while lag compensation helps it can't get rid of latency. ms #1 of your chamber attempt won't get to the server instantly.

Conscript 4227 5324
  • 21 Apr
 vanguard

That is a fair point tbh, but then if this is the case, shouldn't the chamber window be adjusted to conform this reality? Like, you have to have a level of precision that the game doesn't support.

Duke 5134 11071
  • 21 Apr
 Jax — Community Manager

I can chamber accels and delays though, provided I read them, and I can do that pretty often.

Count 24 95
  • 21 Apr
 June

If you see on your screen your parry/chamber attempt go up but you still get hit then there is an issue. This is where compensation should come in. Here is an example of the same thing with a parry. https://clips.twitch.tv/WrongStrangeReindeerCharlietheUnicorn

The OP topic has nothing to do with chambers and whether or not they are a gamble, I don't know why you're derailing the thread unnecessarily.

860 6034
  • 1
  • 21 Apr
 marox — Project Lead

This is not what lag compensation does. It makes your attack slightly faster to account for the time it took to reach the server, and it makes your lockouts more lax to account for the same thing. But it cannot halt the entire game for everyone while waiting for your request. So with 50ms ping, you're just going to have to input ~25ms earlier on average if you're doing it at the absolute last millisecond compared to 0 ping, same goes with parry.

That said, turn and lookup/down interpolation is getting adjusted to be more consistent, as the stock UE4 implementation is peculiar to say the least. This should hopefully improve drag reading, but we will see to what extent.

Conscript 4227 5324
  • 21 Apr
 vanguard

@Jax said:
I can chamber accels and delays though, provided I read them, and I can do that pretty often.

Yeah I can read accels and delays too, when my opponent telegraphs like a retard which is not very often tbh, anyone half decent knows how to properly hide drags.

Are you telling me you read the subtle accels and delays and chamber them consistently? I doubt that tbh there is video of everyone getting fucked by these things. I can chamber this shit as well, but it is far from reading it. I chamber it when I literaly predict what my opponent does.

Imho the fact that Frise read the attack, pressed the buttons at the last possible moment and still failed is kind of a problem idk man, it is what I said above, chambers require a level of precision that, apparently, the game doesn't handle very well unless in lan.

I mean, how can be that waiting for the last second to chamber, that requires you to do so, be a bad thing? That is a skill in itself isnt it? Same with parries, if you can manage to wait and late-parry, that is good.

89 94
  • 1
  • 21 Apr
 TheShade

@Jax said:
chambering =/= reading

if he goes for a delay, you can just FTP out of it

Annyone can punish chamber attempts by hiding their manipulated swings, I really doubt you can chamber unpredictable attacks. Also, it's hard pulling of a correct ftp with the current fast swings since you would need to have pretty quick reactions for it. Even if you did pull off ftp it would just drain all your stamina until you lose anyways, since ftp drains a lot of stamina. Chambers are useless in 1v1 and specially 1vx.

Why didn't chambers get hit trades when ripostes got it? It sounds to me the devs rly don't care about chambers anymore and forgot to impliment hit trades on chambers or something.

Knight 30 157
  • 21 Apr
 Comeandsee

Welp boys seems like we gotta move to Korea

LUL.jpg

Duke 5134 11071
  • 21 Apr
 Jax — Community Manager

I think we were talking about different things - lag compensation and how that works is related to, but different than how to "optimally" chamber.

Knight 828 2154
  • 1
  • 21 Apr
 Frise

so, I just did a frame by frame of these clips, and the time between my input and getting hit is on average 4 frames. That's 66ms, while I had a consistent ping of 56ms. My timing wasn't even that precise.

Is there a command to see packetloss? I wanna check that out, because I don't think it's likely since I had very good packetloss values in Chiv and don't use wifi.

Knight 526 1321

I also often run into that issue, even with parries. This has to get a fix somehow, even if good players technically could get used to it as jax suggest, new players will easily quit the game if they often die while parrying or chambering on time.

We could have a grunt that play earlier, so you can attempt a chamber earlier and have more time to ftp out of it if needed.
Or more lax windows in general, especially chambers, so they become doable consistently with an average ping.

What about when you hit someone who has a ping of 40ms, the game waits 40ms to see if the user didn't parry or chamber on time before damaging the user. Doing so for user with a ping lower than 70-80 shouldn't look too wierd. I would MUCH rather seeing a very tiny delay when I hit someone instead of having to time my parry and chambers not to quickly to read the incoming attack but not too late so I don't get fucked by latency.

860 6034
  • 22 Apr
 marox — Project Lead

@Frise said:
so, I just did a frame by frame of these clips, and the time between my input and getting hit is on average 4 frames. That's 66ms, while I had a consistent ping of 56ms. My timing wasn't even that precise.

Is there a command to see packetloss? I wanna check that out, because I don't think it's likely since I had very good packetloss values in Chiv and don't use wifi.

I doubt it's packet loss in this case, this timing is just extremely late. The rules of time can't be bended. However what is usually done in this case, and you're not going to like this, but it's psychologically forcing you to execute the action earlier.

By playing the attacker's animation slightly more forward in time, so it appears like it's more threatening to you now, thus forcing you to react in the future but by virtue of ping acting in your past which is the server's present. If I even worded that right. Either way, we don't do this because it makes hits look a little wonky, but it might be OK for some 20-30ms. It also influences drag reading in some sense, so it's hard to say.

I know for a fact it improves chamber ability on high ping, making it absurdly similar to local play (with high compensation values), but we haven't tested it extensively and probably makes drag reading quite messy. It might be interesting to expose a bunch of network parameters we use for the simulation and have you guys play with them to see what looks good, what looks bad, etc. It's all local clientside trickery with no actual changes to the server/game, so ultimately it doesn't matter what you choose to use as its just a visual aid.

860 6034
  • 22 Apr
 marox — Project Lead

@ÐMontyleGueux said:
What about when you hit someone who has a ping of 40ms, the game waits 40ms to see if the user didn't parry or chamber on time before damaging the user. Doing so for user with a ping lower than 70-80 shouldn't look too wierd. I would MUCH rather seeing a very tiny delay when I hit someone instead of having to time my parry and chambers not to quickly to read the incoming attack but not too late so I don't get fucked by latency.

This is a non-solution. Then people are just going to push that boundary instead and have that edge case pop up.