Mordhau

Inconsistent design choices

299 479

Without RF I find I more or less have to riposte if I have a large weapon and that's one less tool I have for 1vX. RF shoulda been improved not removed... especcially now that there are trades and everyone will parry your riposte in 1vX instead of gambling. 1vX is supposed to be very difficult, I'm glad they removed active parry it was such bullshit... I think this is where we should have trades. Now that fucker spamming qstaff from behind his friends when it's my turn to riposte can suck a big one. Besides there are still chambers and clashes and then there is parry after hit to punish predictable drags. It's a good thing imho.

No one ever gambled a guy on his riposte then got angry at the guy for trading him when it was his turn to riposte to begin with. Not to mention it will not result in a trade if the riposte-ing player hits first. There are no 360 spin drag maul rape ripostes in this game either. These are not the trades that made chiv bullshit and it's a good move. It will not really discourage gambling but it's better than getting spammed to death by fast weapons even if you block a few.

Health on kill should be brought back however so good players in light armor can stand their own in 1vX, especially since trades benefit them the least in 1vX. If it's gonna be a perk instead... idk how I feel about that.

Successful chambers should receive unflinchable windups too. Why chamber in 1vX and risk so much if you're not even gonna have initiative against smaller faster spammy weapons?

Kick stun should be shorter and successful kicks should have combos while missed kicks do not get cftp. Speeds things up as opposed to slowing things down while still punishing missed kicks.

I like that the devs are experimenting a bit and contrary to what others think I consider this patch another step in the right direction. Everything is more readable, smoother (though still needs work.) Defense got too easy so I propose making parry angles tighter like a shields and we'll see some truly creative drags/moves and an actual use for the 240 system over binds that is less bull shit than deciding if an attack is an accel/decel too late. I honestly find delay drags the gayest, most intuitive thing ever yet they are the most important ingredient in the current meta.

Duke 2160 3625
  • 20 Apr
 Huggles

@daWASTI said:
The sad part is ... i think with removing ripost feints they will have to remove chambering soon aswell, and then you have basically chivalry. Although in a sense the mechanic chambering is something that makes the way easier for casuals, to get better at the game and have a start in feint reading.

But sure, why not 100% trade ... you can already do the following in patch 15:

2v2 on both sides a naked to feed riposts to their teammate in heavy armour, let the big guys trade through each other.

I believe you dont have to piss off competitve players in order to be attractice to a broader audience at all.

holy shit feeding hit trades with hyper armor and high damaging weps....

ABORT ABORT ABORT

Baron 1396 1829

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
RF shoulda been improved not removed... I'm glad they removed active parry it was such bullshit... I think this is where we should have trades.
Health on kill should be brought back
Successful chambers should receive unflinchable windups too.

Kick stun should be shorter and successful kicks should have combos while missed kicks do not get cftp.
Defense got too easy so I propose making parry angles tighter like a shields

I agree with all dis and that they are headed in the right direction. I am not sure how health on kill should work tho.. maybe you get a very small amount back instsntly on kill and it starts to regen at normal speed right after you stop using stam after a kill

Knight 237 723
  • 20 Apr
 GIRUGIRU

Rag you are correct in what you say but this patch is fundamentally FAR better for the game in terms of creating a "successful" game

This is a topic that will be endless if discussed on forums and i'd rather do it in VC with some Devs tuning in if you would be interested - I can try and set something up

Knight 49 101
  • 2
  • 20 Apr
 MrRag

@Astonop said:
I feel it would be interesting to see what people think HAS been fixed this update rather than hearing that practically everything is broken, because then we'd know what we've gained from the update.

  • Clash on disarm
  • Walk movement debuff on chambered/parried/blocked
  • The fixing of accidental misparries post-flinch
  • No flinching from (when thrown): Throwing knife, Shortsword, Dagger, Carving knife
  • Added slight knockback to team hits
  • Less recovery when blocked by a shield

The rest, total mistake.

@GIRUGIRU said:
Rag you are correct in what you say but this patch is fundamentally FAR better for the game in terms of creating a "successful" game
This is a topic that will be endless if discussed on forums and i'd rather do it in VC with some Devs tuning in if you would be interested - I can try and set something up

I guess I'd be up, but from my personal chats with devs, only superficial changes could be done.
I think that in the end, Mordhau will be a game that will require its own equivalent of a compmod, eventually, due to the niche role we seem to represent.

558 1150
  • 20 Apr
 das

@Huggles said:

@daWASTI said:
The sad part is ... i think with removing ripost feints they will have to remove chambering soon aswell, and then you have basically chivalry. Although in a sense the mechanic chambering is something that makes the way easier for casuals, to get better at the game and have a start in feint reading.

But sure, why not 100% trade ... you can already do the following in patch 15:

2v2 on both sides a naked to feed riposts to their teammate in heavy armour, let the big guys trade through each other.

I believe you dont have to piss off competitve players in order to be attractice to a broader audience at all.

holy shit feeding hit trades with hyper armor and high damaging weps....

ABORT ABORT ABORT

Unlike in Chivalry, hit trades can't be forced. If you hit them first, you can immediately parry worry-free (not like they're gonna feint you in a riposte). Developers added unflinchable riposte and riposte armor, it's the players who are getting hit traded by their own folly.

Duke 2160 3625
  • 20 Apr
 Huggles

@das said:

@Huggles said:

@daWASTI said:
The sad part is ... i think with removing ripost feints they will have to remove chambering soon aswell, and then you have basically chivalry. Although in a sense the mechanic chambering is something that makes the way easier for casuals, to get better at the game and have a start in feint reading.

But sure, why not 100% trade ... you can already do the following in patch 15:

2v2 on both sides a naked to feed riposts to their teammate in heavy armour, let the big guys trade through each other.

I believe you dont have to piss off competitve players in order to be attractice to a broader audience at all.

holy shit feeding hit trades with hyper armor and high damaging weps....

ABORT ABORT ABORT

Unlike in Chivalry, hit trades can't be forced. If you hit them first, you can immediately parry worry-free (not like they're gonna feint you in a riposte). Developers added unflinchable riposte and riposte armor, it's the players who are getting hit traded by their own folly.

  1. Attack teammate.

  2. Teammate parries and ripostes

  3. Teammate is unflinchable for his entire attack now with bonus protection.

Are you saying you can't do that right now?

Baron 1396 1829

@Huggles said:

@das said:

@Huggles said:

@daWASTI said:
The sad part is ... i think with removing ripost feints they will have to remove chambering soon aswell, and then you have basically chivalry. Although in a sense the mechanic chambering is something that makes the way easier for casuals, to get better at the game and have a start in feint reading.

But sure, why not 100% trade ... you can already do the following in patch 15:

2v2 on both sides a naked to feed riposts to their teammate in heavy armour, let the big guys trade through each other.

I believe you dont have to piss off competitve players in order to be attractice to a broader audience at all.

holy shit feeding hit trades with hyper armor and high damaging weps....

ABORT ABORT ABORT

Unlike in Chivalry, hit trades can't be forced. If you hit them first, you can immediately parry worry-free (not like they're gonna feint you in a riposte). Developers added unflinchable riposte and riposte armor, it's the players who are getting hit traded by their own folly.

  1. Attack teammate.

  2. Teammate parries and ripostes

  3. Teammate is unflinchable for his entire attack now with bonus protection.

Are you saying you can't do that right now?

This could be fixed so easily lol

Count 24 95
  • 20 Apr
 June

Everything in these patches is experimental. Every patch or two has changed the way the game is played significantly. This will continue to happen. You can give feedback without saying "omg game is ruined forever" everytime. Yea this patch is much more on the side of being easier/more bland but it is in the best spot its been in terms of new player retention. The question is how do we keep this while making the game more enticing at the higher levels of play.

Count 24 95
  • 20 Apr
 June

@Huggles said:

@das said:

@Huggles said:

@daWASTI said:
The sad part is ... i think with removing ripost feints they will have to remove chambering soon aswell, and then you have basically chivalry. Although in a sense the mechanic chambering is something that makes the way easier for casuals, to get better at the game and have a start in feint reading.

But sure, why not 100% trade ... you can already do the following in patch 15:

2v2 on both sides a naked to feed riposts to their teammate in heavy armour, let the big guys trade through each other.

I believe you dont have to piss off competitve players in order to be attractice to a broader audience at all.

holy shit feeding hit trades with hyper armor and high damaging weps....

ABORT ABORT ABORT

Unlike in Chivalry, hit trades can't be forced. If you hit them first, you can immediately parry worry-free (not like they're gonna feint you in a riposte). Developers added unflinchable riposte and riposte armor, it's the players who are getting hit traded by their own folly.

  1. Attack teammate.

  2. Teammate parries and ripostes

  3. Teammate is unflinchable for his entire attack now with bonus protection.

Are you saying you can't do that right now?

You can still just parry the attack or hit him and then ftp. Or just walk away. Its not a good strat and never was.

Knight 122 276
  • 20 Apr
 AngelEyes

@Prince Oberyn Martell said:

Drags (especially stab drags) have taken quite a huge hit this patch. Skill with dragging was a big part of what separated the good player from the novice.

The way stab drags were? More like rewarding me for being a bad player.

I mean sure, a good player with "creativeness" could use it intentionally all day but come on man those mile wide stab drags were just obnoxious and little different than an aim assist in an FPS.

I can appreciate the mechanic for what it is and it's fun. But I agree with TwistedFox at least in the sense of anchoring an argument in the name of "Creativness" (Which an equally parted party will call cheese) is as frustrating as the Escape from Tarkov community using "Realism" to anchor theirs. It only goes as far as said person wants it too then when it doesn't work for their argument anymore they can it.

I want fairy wings, pink swords and Hyper Armor. They also need to add tricycles, Pogo sticks and ride able dinosaurs. Just let me be creative DEVS.

Seriously, Caveats will exits for everyone it's impossible for everyone to love every little aspect of the game. No matter your perspective. Devs need to listen with half an ear to this community because if they took to heart every shred of input it would be in development hell forever.

Conscript 4227 5324
  • 20 Apr
 vanguard

At least in duels, I don't feel like the offensive part is all that weak. I didn't used much riposte feints, I'm not missing them. Drags, that make the bulk of the offense, are still strong as fuck, accelerated attacks are disproportionaly good and as consequence they make delays super effective because people will be parrying way too soon. Chambering is only when like, you are already winning the fight, your opponent is basically dead and you have full health and stamina, so you gamble a few times because why not. They have no practical use in duels and everything they do can be done better and more safely via parry and riposte, it is literally a unecessary risk you are taking.

So for me the game is kinda unbalanced in a sense that it is easy to parry stuff in general, but it is borderline a gamble to chamber them, causing that one method of defense is just way too good compared to the other. But this is not a problem introduced in this patch, and this patch changes little in the overal how the game feels imho. It adds a few very useful things like the clash on disarm, I also kinda like the new kick and I'm cool with the way hittrading works, I found that 1v2 was hard, as it has always been, just different. You fight 1v2 differently in this patch.

The game feels MUCH better in teamplay because people aren't doing fucking subtle accels of DEATH all the goddamn time so you can actually play the game, it is pretty fun I find.

I can't see how this patch made the game more noob friendly tbh, it is the exact same thing from a nooby perspective, we don't have riposte feints, well who gives a fuck you have chamber feints, what kind of noob you think will deal with that. Crazy accels combined with delays, this game is definetly not a bit more noob friendly imo. In this sense, this patch's changes were quite horizontal, they didn't made the game neither easier to pick up or master it. All the changes affect medium-high level play tbh.

Imho, what would make the game both more noob friendly and fair in high level play would be to abolish these fucking stupid fast as shit accels. This game is too fucking fast tbh everything is like chiv's claymore when accelerated, but at the same time, every weapon can delay enough to be unreadable to chamber.

Idk man, I still think that chambers needs more presence in the game, it would be good for both low and high level play.

56 179

I really agree with what rags saying here. The gameplay loop is becoming more and more simplistic and clunky. The entire duel meta is to gamble everything, e.g whether they will drag or not to see if you should attempt chamber or not. To attempt to chamber is also a gamble, but thats okay because if you just try chamber everything then ftp after you see you fucked up you will just lose stamina and keep repeating this until the person who gambled better wins from stamina or lucky hits. Mordhau duels are complete 50/50's between competent players.

Team fights are also neutered, its a bit harder to boil down but it feels so spammy and clunky, getting hit twice because of recovery feels so painful, its no longer viable to use chambers defensively in 1vX because they dont have active parry. Mordhau has a much lower skillcap than chiv, and none of the new mechanics do much to fix this. At this point there are so many conflicting factors that I can't begin to work out whats works well or doesnt, what changes I'd make to improve the game.

Also the update cycle seems bizarre. Things like people being disarmed getting initiative were pointed out by people including me many patches ago, and yet its only just been fixed. Wheres the chase mechanic, and if its not in the game can we get official dev feedback as to why?

558 1150
  • 20 Apr
 das

@Huggles said:

@das said:

@Huggles said:

@daWASTI said:
The sad part is ... i think with removing ripost feints they will have to remove chambering soon aswell, and then you have basically chivalry. Although in a sense the mechanic chambering is something that makes the way easier for casuals, to get better at the game and have a start in feint reading.

But sure, why not 100% trade ... you can already do the following in patch 15:

2v2 on both sides a naked to feed riposts to their teammate in heavy armour, let the big guys trade through each other.

I believe you dont have to piss off competitve players in order to be attractice to a broader audience at all.

holy shit feeding hit trades with hyper armor and high damaging weps....

ABORT ABORT ABORT

Unlike in Chivalry, hit trades can't be forced. If you hit them first, you can immediately parry worry-free (not like they're gonna feint you in a riposte). Developers added unflinchable riposte and riposte armor, it's the players who are getting hit traded by their own folly.

  1. Attack teammate.

  2. Teammate parries and ripostes

  3. Teammate is unflinchable for his entire attack now with bonus protection.

Are you saying you can't do that right now?

That's unflinchable riposte, not a hit trade. Hit trade attempts can still be parried if the other guy hits you first + that is telegraphed as hell so I don't see the problem in practice. The stupidity of it in Chivalry was that you'd commit hard to a swing that can't be feinted anymore, HIT the enemy, but still be unable to parry his unflinched attack. Now you can, and it's not exactly hard for the most part.

Baron 1396 1829

the same people who are complaining about simplifying the combat are the same people who complain 1vX is too hard. They want to be able to kill eachother in 1/4 of a second, yet still be able to take on more than one person who can do the same to them. Then they want a brokenly stupid, stupidly broken mechanic to somehow save 1vX in this clusterfuck of all too easy to use op mechanics.

Simplifying the combat from 14, close to where it is now, is the only way team play is going to be any fun at all imo.

It is a very good thing we have a dev team that is clearly willing to experiment in order to find the perfect balance.

194 89
  • 1
  • 21 Apr
 a_squire

Similar is happening in Mordhau, after managing to know how to parry right, dragging right (which are too easy to do), chambering right, and reading without chambering, there's not much left to do. Footworking is a lot more restrictive, and you cannot win 1vX, you can just survive for a certain amount until you leave the fight/go out of stamina. This imaginary step is not very concievable, and over time, and already the case for some players, they will reach this moment, and find out they can't reasonably improve, then they will see the mistake this patch was.

please nooo

you guys are making it sound like this game is turning into mount and blade...

damn you devs. its just supposed to be a better chivalry with better graphics, that beautiful clash mechanic and holding swords upside down like a beast. hashtag release the game before you ruin it!!!! chiv was good cause like he said you could constantly improve on your own playstyle... for honor was bad cause it was rock paper scissors with animations attached, mount and blade was too clunky. cmon, you know what to do!

299 479

whispers from Darth Sidius hologram voice
"Make parry harder in terms of direction/angle so defense can come down to more than guessing when to press a button to make swing manipulation more intuitive and increase the role of 240 combat system all while increasing the skill ceiling and creativity/depth of drags, feints and offense in general, etc, etc."

Other eviler voice
"Or leave defense almost entirely based on timing and trying to decide if an attack is an accel or drag/feint in an online game with latency because that is what the meta in Chivalry was and we logically must do the same but make it look slightly less bad. Git gud amirite?"