Mordhau

New Kick Stun Feels Shit

Duke 2266 4010
  • 2
  • 17 Apr '18
 Huggles

For both players.

Yes, the patch just came out. It's too early to say things for a lot of the changes and I kinda agree. The rest of the changes feel somewhat subtle and haven't phased me as much yet. For the most part patch feels good so far but needs a lot more time for proper feedback.

However, the way kick works right now is JARRING. Kick is slower, not that much slower, but it was already pretty hard to punish facehug and easy as hell to bait kicks and now it's just that much easier plus more reward. That's the minor gripe, but the major one is how the stun works and how the combo feels. The stun lasts FOREVERRRRRR. And the hit comes so late it feels atrocious for both the person being kicked and the person doing the kicking.

I somewhat like the idea of punishing kicks but atm what has made this possible has just made successful kicks feel shit.


Ideally here's how it would work. You are kicked, you are almost instantly hit after being stunned, your stun is over the instant you are hit. Right now you are stunned for what feels like forever and your opponent is ever so slowly winding up a brand new attack that you are helpless to do much about. You just wait and take the hit of what feels like a super long drag.

All in all it just feels shit and so out of place for the pacing of the rest of the game. I'm not against kick stun and not against punishing failed kicks, but as of right now it feels terrible.


Note: Not saying kick is unbalanced or too weak or anything. I'm saying it FEELS shit. Right now it is long stun and slow hit. When it should be short stun and fast hit.

Knight 685 1852
  • 17 Apr '18
 ÐMontyleGueux

I like how triternion is taking risks with mechanics, I'm all in for the kick stun. That said, I miss the patch 14 kick which was efficient enough at punishing facehug, without being an absolute cancer. The new kick can't punish turtling shields as efficiently as the old one. In short, I think that the game needs both.

Why not simply making a light kick/heavy kick like in chivalry ? Press F for the light kick that works as a facehug punish, hold F for the heavy kick that stun enemies.

Duke 2266 4010
  • 17 Apr '18
 Huggles

@ÐMontyleGueux said:
I like how triternion is taking risks with mechanics, I'm all in for the kick stun. That said, I miss the patch 14 kick which was efficient enough at punishing facehug, without being an absolute cancer. The new kick can't punish turtling shields as efficiently as the old one. In short, I think that the game needs both.

Why not simply making a light kick/heavy kick like in chivalry ? Press F for the light kick that works as a facehug punish, hold F for the heavy kick that stun enemies.

I'm not saying kick is bad or whatever, I'm saying it feels shit.

Baron 578 966
  • 17 Apr '18
 lash

I for myself cannot really say much to as how kick should work or be implemented. But i got this idea;

How often was it used when in fight really?(not saying MORDHAU must be historicall in this matter)

Kick is not risk free. You are in the end sticking one of your limb directly to the enemy.

I think that slower kick that should punish turtling shield users could be a good thing, and kick that is often used in duel becouse it's strong mechanic could be a bad thing. That's really all i can say.

I have not encountered many kicks by the way, even so I could say that almost everyone I met never used kick. - I do not play on high lvl, though - have you?

396 453
  • 17 Apr '18
 JasonBourne

Ive had some kicks combat, and personally I don't like it as it is right now. Yea with time we could learn how to counter it (parry or kick) but against shield players its not that effective, and I rather expected to be effective against shields.

Knight 1269 3808
  • 17 Apr '18
 Frise

They're going a particular way about the kick. It doesn't work for punishing facehugs against moderately fast weapons, it never did. But it's great for punishing predictability or big delay-drags. I think stun is too much; It's annoying for the stunned person and doesn't actually feel very rewarding for the kicker. It also just looks dumb that you just stay frozen for like 2 seconds. It was perfect in patch 14 imo.

On one side, I want them to make kick short and fast so that it actually is able to punish facehugging properly; but on the other side, I really like how it works right now, it's useful, fun, and makes the combat a bit more interesting.

If they're gonna keep the kick like this, they really should add some form to punish facehugging properly. A light and heavy kick would do the job imo, but the cooler option would be to add butt-end/pommel bashes.

So you can press V, for example, and you throw a quick, short range attack that does very low damage. Quick enough to interrupt someone if they get too close, and short enough to only be useful at facehug range.

Additionally you could give different weapons different attacks instead of this, for example the billhook hooking people with this attack instead of with the normal strikes.

Knight 685 1852
  • 17 Apr '18
 ÐMontyleGueux

@Frise said:
On one side, I want them to make kick short and fast so that it actually is able to punish facehugging properly; but on the other side, I really like how it works right now, it's useful, fun, and makes the combat a bit more interesting.

This is exactly how the state of the kick feels right now imo.

If they're gonna keep the kick like this, they really should add some form to punish facehugging properly. A light and heavy kick would do the job imo, but the cooler option would be to add butt-end/pommel bashes.

I like the idea of pommel bash, it's original and much more readable than two different kick.

So you can press V, for example, and you throw a quick, short range attack that does very low damage. Quick enough to interrupt someone if they get too close, and short enough to only be useful at facehug range.

I like that idea a lot. Please make it happen.

Duke 986 1381
  • 18 Apr '18
 PadanFain

Kick is in the best place it has been yet imo very nice changes

Knight 5187 6954
  • 1
  • 18 Apr '18
 Humble Staff

@ÐMontyleGueux said:

@Frise said:
On one side, I want them to make kick short and fast so that it actually is able to punish facehugging properly; but on the other side, I really like how it works right now, it's useful, fun, and makes the combat a bit more interesting.

This is exactly how the state of the kick feels right now imo.

If they're gonna keep the kick like this, they really should add some form to punish facehugging properly. A light and heavy kick would do the job imo, but the cooler option would be to add butt-end/pommel bashes.

I like the idea of pommel bash, it's original and much more readable than two different kick.

So you can press V, for example, and you throw a quick, short range attack that does very low damage. Quick enough to interrupt someone if they get too close, and short enough to only be useful at facehug range.

I like that idea a lot. Please make it happen.

I second this and i'm creating an alt account to third it, i would love to see quick jabbing with the butt end of weapons with this purpose.

Knight 1269 3808
  • 18 Apr '18
 Frise

@Humble Staff said:
i would love to see quick jabbing with the butt end of weapons with this purpose.

and I would like to quickly jab your butt with the end of my weapon.

1159 1816

Kicks are still very effective against shied users. You do the damage, they lose stamina AND their block does come down. 1 kick can win you the duel even if it's blocked and no stun given. Patch 14 kicks were generally great but cheesy since a shield user got stuck and if he lowered his shield he risked getting stabbed. Now it's very fair... your missed kick is punishable, shield raise/lower is removed so a shield user can counter kick and if he blocks he's at least blocked the stun effect though his guard comes down and he has to bring it back up. This means kicks anti-shield potential is greatest in team combat where one ally kicks and the other attacks. Now require's some IQ instead of simply body feinting to scare some guy and then laughing as you kick to death the stupid, unskilled shield user you hate so much for "turtling." Shield vs two hander should be about balancing short, fast weapons against long, slow weapons with some slight mechanical differences. Footwork being the most important tool for either party whether it's keeping distance, closing the distance, kicking a facehugger or flanking the shield/parry.

I think kick stun should be shorter while you get to combo off landed kicks but not missed kicks. Best of both worlds and doesn't feel so annoying for either party. Missed kicks get punished since they still don't get to combo or ftp while landed kicks allow you to follow up against a stunned opponent and keeps gameplay fast paced. The pommel bash, offhand punch, shield bash or weapon butt stab seems like an interesting way to steal initiative and give even slow weapons a trump card. Shouldn't do too much damage/stamina damage though and about punishing drags/stealing initiative and should be parryable.

Duke 5502 13139
  • 18 Apr '18
 Jax — Community Manager

I think you may be on to something, but we need to adapt to the meta first.

36 70
  • 1
  • 18 Apr '18
 Elder

Kick's better than what use to be, but it's starting to be used offensively again, which is the main problem. You can do shit like stab with a maul, intentionally miss, kick, then get a free 1htk. You can hit someone with the end of the release phase, which will stagger them long enough so they cant backpedal a kick. Pressing F because my opponent pressed F is not a fun gameplay mechanic and dumbs down the gameplay.

Count 671 1131
  • 18 Apr '18
 Zexis

I liked kicks as a zoning tool, a fast interrupt to give you space or punish a facehugging feint spammer or long drag.

Drags got nerfed and the bubble got buffed, and kick windup is slower and can't be combo'd. They are still useful and I have been using them, but I'm not using them the way I thought I would. Undecided if that's good or bad

stun needs its own animation if this stays

Knight 292 904
  • 18 Apr '18
 GIRUGIRU

Sounds good to me;

  • Reduce kick stun duration
  • Reduce successful kick -> combo speed (faster punish on the stun
  • Dispel stun as soon as you take damage while kickstunned

Overall kick should work exactly the same but it makes 1vX better for the 1, and as a result kick also flows with the game's pace better

396 453
Knight 528 3378
  • 1
  • 18 Apr '18
 rob_owner

i thought the title was super clever like, the kick kicks so much ass that its just feeling the shit inside of the ass, like it feels shit, but then i read some of what you said and saw you didnt think they were good.

I actually preferred the old kicks from last build, was just a quick little punch, a great counter for feints if you use a sluggy weapon, you could read feint and punish with F, kinda harder and way more risky to try that now though, if you miss you are a free hit, if you land it the guy needs to take a pause brake and i have to stop fighting him so he can recoup. It also feels slower and easier to dodge and baiting it is extremely viable. Just my opinion though, they'll probably do more to the footsies mechanic and I dont mind testing, even if I dont like it as much as last build it might just be better in the long run, but they'll probably fine tune it some more later, either decide that any kind of stun is bad or leave this as an exception i dunno

Baron 1551 2086
  • 18 Apr '18
 yourcrippledson

@Frise said:

So you can press V, for example, and you throw a quick, short range attack that does very low damage. Quick enough to interrupt someone if they get too close, and short enough to only be useful at facehug range.

Additionally you could give different weapons different attacks instead of this, for example the billhook hooking people with this attack instead of with the normal strikes.

There needs to be something. Right now you can just march right up to any slow weapon with a fast one and feel pretty much safe. You've taken control over the fight by simply walking forward