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Alpha Build #15 Discussion Thread

1430 2175

When they add a bastard axe but no bastard mace :,c

All in all I like all the new changes but I can't really side stab as well now. I like that stabs are shorter and less floaty looking... you more or less have to commit with your stab in windup and it's pretty readable whether you're gonna slightly drag it or not. Shields feel great. I do not find myself at any disadvantage against 2h but for reach/damage which is kind of inherent when you take a 1h up against 2h. Love clash on disarm...would be nice if in the future this meant the disarmed player auto swaps to sidearm. Also love the new skinny/muscular character changes.

However, riposte feints, stab drags/z stabs and feinting got harder to pull off... all might be good things but defense is now too easy. I have had too many long fight exchanges with people who are better or worse than me when they should be steamrolling me or vice versa. Defense should be nerfed and I think parry should be brought more in line with shields in terms of aim. Everything is now even more so about delay/acceleration deceptions and that's the sole meta.

Thanks for bringing us this update!

Knight 5410 7408
  • 18 Apr '18
 Humble Staff

But it's not bastard, it's a middle point between the axe and the battle axe but you can't grip it with one hand. Its alternative use will be throwing

Duke 2266 4010
  • 1
  • 18 Apr '18
 Huggles

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
When they add a bastard axe but no bastard mace :,c

All in all I like all the new changes but I can't really side stab as well now. I like that stabs are shorter and less floaty looking... you more or less have to commit with your stab in windup and it's pretty readable whether you're gonna slightly drag it or not. Shields feel great. I do not find myself at any disadvantage against 2h but for reach/damage which is kind of inherent when you take a 1h up against 2h. Love clash on disarm...would be nice if in the future this meant the disarmed player auto swaps to sidearm. Also love the new skinny/muscular character changes.

However, riposte feints, stab drags/z stabs and feinting got harder to pull off... all might be good things but defense is now too easy. I have had too many long fight exchanges with people who are better or worse than me when they should be steamrolling me or vice versa. Defense should be nerfed and I think parry should be brought more in line with shields in terms of aim. Everything is now even more so about delay/acceleration deceptions and that's the sole meta.

Thanks for bringing us this update!

It's more or less about accel/deccel and feint. I think adding in light aim like you suggest would do wonders for making the combat more varied and just add more depth overall. "Parry is supposed to be easy" just feels like a really lame excuse. 1vx is hard no matter what, severely doubt aim is the primary reason and I don't really see 1vx with shield significantly harder at all than with parry, in fact I find it easier. And to the contrary of making teamplay worse, I think worrying about positioning/footwork for something other than making the timing easier on yourself would do wonders for getting people to coordinate in a team naturally.

Plus defense is too easy overall and it seems like making parrybox more in line with the shields is the only way to tone defense down without bringing back the more bullshit attacks. It's just an intuitive thing to somewhat look at the attack you are blocking...

Also keep in mind it doesn't have to be targe level block. Or even heater. Having a similar parrybox to like the kite shield would be fine imho for parry. No one is asking for literally having the wep be the parrybox. This simple change would probably resolve all my gripes for this patch. Perhaps maybe with a re revert for bubble, lmao.

1430 2175

@Huggles said:

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
When they add a bastard axe but no bastard mace :,c

All in all I like all the new changes but I can't really side stab as well now. I like that stabs are shorter and less floaty looking... you more or less have to commit with your stab in windup and it's pretty readable whether you're gonna slightly drag it or not. Shields feel great. I do not find myself at any disadvantage against 2h but for reach/damage which is kind of inherent when you take a 1h up against 2h. Love clash on disarm...would be nice if in the future this meant the disarmed player auto swaps to sidearm. Also love the new skinny/muscular character changes.

However, riposte feints, stab drags/z stabs and feinting got harder to pull off... all might be good things but defense is now too easy. I have had too many long fight exchanges with people who are better or worse than me when they should be steamrolling me or vice versa. Defense should be nerfed and I think parry should be brought more in line with shields in terms of aim. Everything is now even more so about delay/acceleration deceptions and that's the sole meta.

Thanks for bringing us this update!

It's more or less about accel/deccel and feint. I think adding in light aim like you suggest would do wonders for making the combat more varied and just add more depth overall. "Parry is supposed to be easy" just feels like a really lame excuse. 1vx is hard no matter what, severely doubt aim is the primary reason and I don't really see 1vx with shield significantly harder at all than with parry, in fact I find it easier. And to the contrary of making teamplay worse, I think worrying about positioning/footwork for something other than making the timing easier on yourself would do wonders for getting people to coordinate in a team naturally.

Plus defense is too easy overall and it seems like making parrybox more in line with the shields is the only way to tone defense down without bringing back the more bullshit attacks. It's just an intuitive thing to somewhat look at the attack you are blocking...

Also keep in mind it doesn't have to be targe level block. Or even heater. Having a similar parrybox to like the kite shield would be fine imho for parry. No one is asking for literally having the wep be the parrybox. This simple change would probably resolve all my gripes for this patch. Perhaps maybe with a re revert for bubble, lmao.

Couldn't agree more, especially where shield is easier in 1vX. I almost exclusively use shield in teamplay. Nerfing parry size wouldn't be so detrimental to 1vX at all. A smaller parry size than Chivalry is what I expected when I spent so much money on an alpha key.

@Humble Staff said:
But it's not bastard, it's a middle point between the axe and the battle axe but you can't grip it with one hand. Its alternative use will be throwing

Oh I heard in game that it's alt mode was going to be 1h.

Knight 79 157
  • 18 Apr '18
 Netherim

Bubble in the perfect spot now imho, in previous patch smaller bubble was leading to sinking in opponent's model in some extreme cases and it also made reading 1h feints even harder.

Duke 5558 13284
  • 18 Apr '18
 Jax — Community Manager

mmmm I think that the bubble being closer only means that people are extra-fucked if their opponent goes for a kick
I'll test some more but I feel that having it in between build 14-15 values could be nice, but I'm just speculating

Mercenary 1263 2303
  • 18 Apr '18
 TheKingInTheNorth

@Stouty said:
A really small change has broken the game for anyone that uses RMB to feint, that sounds dramatic but it's honestly the case.

The issue: now that you can't feint in riposte a lot of the skilled players will be pushing the limits of making a "fake riposte", a normal attack started as early as possible so that you can then feint it. However in the heat of a battle often your attempts at starting a normal attack will be off by literally a millisecond and you will riposte instead. In this build if you press parry (or feint if bound to rmb) at the start of a riposte you will instead automatically FTP (feint to parry).

In summary: If you use rmb to feint you're going to end up panic parrying accidentally all the time.

Other cons:

  • Allows for noncommittal game play (just FTP out of everything)
  • Looks janky af, most people will panic parry if you FTP your riposte at them
  • Adds layer of complexity when skill gap is already insane
  • Forces a playstyle down peoples throats, basically feint with Q and use a FTP bind or GTFO

Second this and hope the devs hotfix this before the next patch.

Knight 685 1855
  • 18 Apr '18
 ÐMontyleGueux

Here's some random footage of the night trying the new patch on my server :

10/10 patch tbh.

Knight 528 3386
  • 18 Apr '18
 rob_owner
  • Fat pose now has a wider walk

finally the game is playable

3 4
  • 1
  • 18 Apr '18
 Benjib

@Stouty said:
A really small change has broken the game for anyone that uses RMB to feint, that sounds dramatic but it's honestly the case.

The issue: now that you can't feint in riposte a lot of the skilled players will be pushing the limits of making a "fake riposte", a normal attack started as early as possible so that you can then feint it. However in the heat of a battle often your attempts at starting a normal attack will be off by literally a millisecond and you will riposte instead. In this build if you press parry (or feint if bound to rmb) at the start of a riposte you will instead automatically FTP (feint to parry).

In summary: If you use rmb to feint you're going to end up panic parrying accidentally all the time.

Other cons:

  • Allows for noncommittal game play (just FTP out of everything)
  • Looks janky af, most people will panic parry if you FTP your riposte at them
  • Adds layer of complexity when skill gap is already insane
  • Forces a playstyle down peoples throats, basically feint with Q and use a FTP bind or GTFO

Stouty raises a very good point here and a concern for those of us who fint with rmb.

If this could be addressed it would be fantastic.

Edit : other than that GREAT JOB game is brilliant

Count 671 1131
  • 19 Apr '18
 Zexis

I feel drags and aimed strikes aren't nearly as powerful as morphs, feints, and general fakeouts this patch. I don't really like it so far - but the game also feels less cheesy

Knight 293 847
  • 1
  • 19 Apr '18
 Hiemal

I think it was added in build #14 but I'm definitely not a fan of the hit stop with blunt weapons. Makes the game feel inconsistent imo and just makes fighting multiple opponents awkward with blunt weapons. Also, the hit stop can make you think you've hit someone on your team since team damage also causes hit stop.

Knight 5410 7408
  • 19 Apr '18
 Humble Staff

hitstop is the greatest thing since the adittion of the sling to chivalry imho.

Conscript 4564 6302
  • 2
  • 19 Apr '18
 vanguard

I think this patch is definetly a step in the right direction, but it still fails to adress a few main issues that I see with the game, the main one being the readability of drags and accels in order to chamber them, it still feels gambly as fuck imho specially against medium tier weapons like longsword, battle axe, billhook, messer etc.

I know that probably everyone at this point already gave up on the 240 system but srsly, we need more to it. The crosshair that indicates the direction you are pointing at is a great place to start imho, this would help greatly to reduce the aparent randomness of the system.

Other then this, I like the kick, I got punished 19287981745 times already for feinting at facehug reach so I think it works good.

Overal, the randomness caused by both 240 system + the subtle fucking hard to read drags makes duels rather frustrating tbh. The game is WAY more enjoyable in teamfights then in duels, duels are basically a matter of time until you to rage at some of these things.

Really, the 240 system needs more to it before release, otherwise it will be only cause of frustration for newer players. You waste time trying to learn the system, only to find out that you should be using binds all along. And it is not a easy system to master tbh you gotta be fucking precise in your mouse movements. We need a special crosshair for it imho.

I was here thinking, like, in this kind of game, we never had 100% readable animations, as chiv and m&b didn't deliver this. So what if we experimented with 100% readable animations, and then worked from there to find a sweet spot in readability? I see this argument that 100% readable animations would break the game, but we never even had this to beggin with, so how can we possibly know how it will play?

Mercenary 2193 3914
  • 19 Apr '18
 EruTheTeapot

Imho binds should be gone anyway, If you include a system like 240, it shouldn't have binds alongside with it.
Its like giving someone a car after you just gave them new cool running shoes

Knight 706 1084
  • 19 Apr '18
 VampireDuck

@EruTheTeapot said:
Imho binds should be gone anyway, If you include a system like 240, it shouldn't have binds alongside with it.
Its like giving someone a car after you just gave them new cool running shoes

I agree. Mordhau was advertised as using the 240 system but then binds are available as well which give an advantage over 240 users (in its current state anyway) its the same with 3rd person. I don't feel this is good for a heavily skill based game.

King 18 76
  • 19 Apr '18
 ClockTower

i feel slower

1430 2175

Let's be honest... not attacking 240 because I use it... but what is the point in using 240 slashes when binds do everything faster and more reliably? What good are having 240 attack angles when 6 binds and one center-chest parry will block all of them? For the one in a hundred swings that, if inputed right, will come over/under an obstacle/teammate and land where you want?

I started with 240, then went to 240 but binded overheads, then went completely to binds and now I am back 100% on 240. Im only using 240 now because it's easier to just use one button for slashes and one for stabs but 240 is only ever beneficial when fighting and tricking shields at least in my experience. Theoretically... If I use an angle that is between both overhead and horizontal slash, can't both binds chamber it? So then it's not even good for confusing chambers. This is the part where I say parry size should be smaller/stricter like shields so our 240 slashes have more overall relevance.

I agree the 240 toggle-able crosshair indicator is a must.

Knight 627 2068
  • 20 Apr '18
 LuxCandidus

With the making of some monumental, controversial changes to the game, a lot of minor yet nevertheless important changes are bound to go unnoticed, and I want you to know they are appreciated:

  • The sound that plays upon killing someone is fantastic and adds weight to thrown weapons especially. Great job.
  • An assist counting as a kill if you dealt at least 75 damage is vastly underappreciated and will result in a lack of intention to killsteal, which in turn will improve teamwork. Brilliant.
  • I really like the feedback for damage dealt and points earned. It looks very professional and makes the game appear that much closer to completion. In the future you should include an option to display the damage of each strike as a separate number rather than aggregating it all into one value that gets updated with each attack. It would also be nice to include additional information such as which region your attack hit (legs/torso/head) which can be enabled or disabled in the options menu.
  • No riposte feints improves the game tremendously.
  • The maps so far have felt dull because they are linear, but the expansion of Grad assures me you will improve existing maps to where there are many paths to take to the enemy base, and many areas in which to isolate fights. The ladders have also helped bring out Grad's verticality, a crucial feature for any map to be enjoyable. I really like the new version of the map, from the flat open plains to the tight walls and stairs (and the well).
  • Various other changes like health regeneration beginning earlier and small throwables not flinching while heavy ones still do are great. These tiny changes accumulate, and their effects might not be immediately felt, but that makes them no less wonderful.
  • I am amazed you managed to fix smoke bombs and fire bombs in a single try. Now they are no longer a nuisance and look great as well.

And now onto the unsavory:

  • The removal of both active parry and health on kill has made 1vX impossible. While I admit hit trading has not been half as atrocious as I expected, it does nothing to make fights in which you are outnumbered winnable.
  • I am very happy to see the kick stun brought back, however it needs some work. It feels awkward for both sides as @Huggles pointed out. At least include an animation for the stunned state or an indicator.
  • Clash on disarm. Like the kick, I am happy to see this feature but it needs to be tweaked. Currently it means there is no way for a disarmed player to outplay their opponent. I recognise being disarmed should be punished, but you cannot deny how immensely enjoyable it is to watch someone lose their weapon and still win through sheer skill, and how satisfying it is when said person is yourself. Once the fist animations have been made more readable, the disarmed opponent will be hopeless enough. Maybe make it so the armed player cannot combo after the clash? Make it clash but deal less damage? Anything to give the defenseless player a chance while retaining initiative to the armed player.
  • I am seeing some weird issues with stabs where they often hit way past the range at which they should have. I do not think this is due to stabs being altered, but rather all the partial sprint changes and movement debuff upon being parried. Something, probably related to those things, is causing the lunge to be far more exaggerated.
Knight 685 1855
  • 20 Apr '18
 ÐMontyleGueux

@LuxCandidus said:

  • Clash on disarm. Like the kick, I am happy to see this feature but it needs to be tweaked. Currently it means there is no way for a disarmed player to outplay their opponent. I recognise being disarmed should be punished, but you cannot deny how immensely enjoyable it is to watch someone lose their weapon and still win through sheer skill, and how satisfying it is when said person is yourself. Once the fist animations have been made more readable, the disarmed opponent will be hopeless enough. Maybe make it so the armed player cannot combo after the clash? Make it clash but deal less damage? Anything to give the defenseless player a chance while retaining initiative to the armed player.

Getting disarmed grants you a partial sprint boost iirc. Which means that you're supposed to 180° and run as soon as you get disarmed.