Mordhau

Current Issues

Knight 12 75
  • 9 Dec '17
 Jangl3

I'll preface this whole post with why you should even read it. I currently have 240 hours in Mordhau, on top of 2000 hours on Chivalry. I played Chivalry competitively for many of my hours, and I plan to do the same with Mordhau, so I want to see it in the best possible competitive state.

I was holding off until Patch 11 to make this post, as I hoped it would fix many of these issues, and while it did address some, there are still a number of flaws/issues/bugs that make the game considerably less enjoyable and competitive than it could be.

  • Attacks going through parry/chamber
    I think this comes down to bad netcode, as it has happened on every server I've joined, and many other people I've talked to have experienced it as well.

  • Stabs being instant/Having bad animations
    Currently most stabs are very hard to react to if they are accelerated, leading to many frustrating hits where sometimes you barely even notice the stab before it hits you. The stab tracers on some weapons start before the actual weapon is thrust fully forward in the animation, and I think stabs in general need an animation change or a general increase in the windup time of all stabs to be consistently able to react to them and read the animation. Stab drags are also hard to recognise and thus chamber, as with many weapons the release tracer continues while the weapon is thrust out, leading to stabs hovering in the air for a few ms before being dragged into you with no actual change in the animation while the weapon is in release.

  • Being unable to morph to the opposite side
    For example, if I stab to the left, I am then limited to morphing into only strikes that start from the left, and vice versa. This isn't really a problem while doing an offensive morph, but if someone is using a morph defensively in order to chamber, it can lead to quite frustrating scenarios as you are simply locked out of morphing to the opposite side, and are thus forced to take the hit or feint to parry. I haven't seen anything on this, but I think it is a needless restriction for the game in my opinion, and changing morphs so that you can morph to any side should at least be something that should be tested and have feedback and input given for it.

  • Being unable to punish after attempting a chamber
    This isn't even necessarily true for slow vs fast weapons, it can happen with weapons of similar speed, or even vs a slower weapon for some reason. For example, someone swings at me, I windup attempting to chamber, they feint, windup another attack and hit first. This should not happen due to feint recovery, but there are massive differences in windup speed between weapons, and it seems not enough feint recovery if a slower weapon can somehow feint and hit me with the follow up attack first. Adding more initial feint recovery no matter the length of the feint could help alleviate this, but it is currently not too hard to double parry, or parry into chamber to recover from falling for a feint. Bringing the windup of weapons closer to each other could be another solution, but it would lead to the same problem as before unless more lockout after a failed parry attempt was added. Another part of this issue is that it means fast weapons can consistently hit into larger weapons combos and flinch them, which is quite annoying.

  • Tracers being too long
    Most weapons strike tracers deal damage when they are off the screen. This is very annoying as it can lead to accidentally hitting teammates who you couldn't even see, and it also means that to do a full length drag you cannot see the person you are trying to hit OR your own weapon at the end of its release, so you must guess when your weapon's release end, and also where your enemy is, even on maximum fov. Raising the max fov could help, but and others think that shortening strike tracers in the way to go.

  • Projectiles flinching
    Having stuff thrown at you mid fight when you can't even see it and having it not only deal damage, but also flinch you out of an attack or parry is extremely frustrating.

  • Teammates flinching
    Similar problem to projectiles, having an unaware or uncontrolled swinger boy of a teammate hit you and flinch you is very annoying. You are being punished twofold for someone elses mistake, and it is just unnecessary.

  • Windup dead zone
    There is a stage during windup, just before release, where your weapon is not dealing damage but you are also unable to feint or morph. This is very frustrating as I can recognise my opponent is going to hit first and attempt to morph to chamber or feint to parry, but be unable to due to this restriction and simply have to accept a hit. It is another strange restriction/oversight that is in the game similar to being unable to morph to the opposite, and I don't think it needs to be in at all. The only reason I can see it being in is to make morphs/feints easier to read, but I don't think either of those mechanics are a problem to deal with currently.

  • Inconsistent active parry
    Active parry during riposte windup seems quite inconsistent, sometimes I can hit someone who appears to be in riposte windup and they will just take the hit, while other times the active parry will work as intended.

  • Attacks being queued without input
    This seems to be a new bug in patch 11, where if you attack someone and they parry/chamber your attack, sometimes you will immediately begin another attack that was not inputted.

  • Lockout
    Another issue vs faster weapons is to do with flinch/lockout. For example, if someone with a bastard stabs you and hits you, then stabs you again and you attempt to chamber it you will be unable to because you are still locked out of attacking due to the previous hit. I'm not sure how this could be fixed though, because some flinch/lockout should be in place after being hit. Maybe make it so that you can windup to chamber as a defensive move, but your attack doesn't continue into release? Honestly not sure what can be done here.

These are the main current issues/flaws/bugs that I have noticed with Mordhau, and I think if they were all addressed in some way then it would take the game leaps and bounds forward in terms of being competitive and enjoyable for all.

Duke 554 949
  • 9 Dec '17
 Goatie

Glad its not just me getting random attacks queued up.

140 66
  • 1
  • 9 Dec '17
 s522662

tracers being long adds an element of awareness during teamfights

140 66
  • 9 Dec '17
 s522662

and stab drags have no problem, they are actually bad in terms of dragging. I recommend a monitor of 144hz to be able to recognize that amount of speed and reaction.

Baron 28 28
  • 9 Dec '17
 Cranberry

@s522662 said:
and stab drags have no problem, they are actually bad in terms of dragging. I recommend a monitor of 144hz to be able to recognize that amount of speed and reaction.

stab drags are most certainly a problem, many times it will look like your opponent stabbed straight into you but they manage to drag around your parry/chamber (according to the draggers account). Over discord this tends to be one of the most common 'wtf' moments for the receiver.

Also, I agree with pretty much everything jangle said, would be great if they devs do too.

Knight 7 13
  • 9 Dec '17
 Contraband

@s522662 said:
and stab drags have no problem, they are actually bad in terms of dragging. I recommend a monitor of 144hz to be able to recognize that amount of speed and reaction.

The problem is trying to chamber a stab that could be instant, or very delayed, due to the stab tracers beginning before the weapon is even thrust in some cases. With some mouse movement it becomes very difficult to chamber and you end up parrying out or get hit. If the tracers started slightly after the weapon was thrust, reading the movement of the stab would be much more viable than it is currently.

56 179
  • 9 Dec '17
 GandaPestile

I agree with most of the issues here, but I would like to raise the point that some of the issues here aren't really fixable without major shifts in the whole theme of the games combat. The real question being should it be a part of the game to have nonpunishable feints or chambers, whether its a part of the skillcap to manipulate off screen tracers and know when to parry your teammates unavoidable attacks. Should it be the accepted meta that as a general rule you cant chamber the second stab in a two stab combo? Everything I listed takes real skill to learn or deal with, but they feel unintuitive or like artificial difficulty, or requires changes to timing that ruin the game elsewhere.

On the theme of unintuitive, i think the double parry mechanic needs refinement. Firstly I think it is too easy to pull off by simply looking back or to the side, and secondly if you use a chamber defensively you can double parry much faster than you can by using a parry. I'm not sure if this is an intended high tier mechanic, where you can escape being punished for falling for a feint by correctly chambering their follow up, but every time i do it or it is done to me it feels like ive been cheated. Feints in a purely offensive sense are already very neutered, and in the case where your feint does work I don't think people should be rewarded so much for very basic footwork. I fully support the idea of double parrying, and chambers as a defensive tool here, but I think the timing should be more consistent and the difficulty of the maneuver raised.

Baron 7 41
  • 10 Dec '17
 good evening

STRONGLY AGREE

Particularly with the instant stabs and attacks in general/poor netcode, I'd say these problems are the most disruptive and annoying to deal with right now and cause chambers to be complete gambles in a lot of instances.

140 66
  • 10 Dec '17
 s522662

@good evening said:
STRONGLY AGREE

Particularly with the instant stabs and attacks in general/poor netcode, I'd say these problems are the most disruptive and annoying to deal with right now and cause chambers to be complete gambles in a lot of instances.

Cant you just crouch and move your body back so the blade doesnt hit you instantly?

Conscript 4564 6302
  • 10 Dec '17
 vanguard

@Jangl3 said:

  • Being unable to morph to the opposite side
    For example, if I stab to the left, I am then limited to morphing into only strikes that start from the left, and vice versa. This isn't really a problem while doing an offensive morph, but if someone is using a morph defensively in order to chamber, it can lead to quite frustrating scenarios as you are simply locked out of morphing to the opposite side, and are thus forced to take the hit or feint to parry. I haven't seen anything on this, but I think it is a needless restriction for the game in my opinion, and changing morphs so that you can morph to any side should at least be something that should be tested and have feedback and input given for it.

Holy shit this would make the game feel so much better imho

95 102
  • 1
  • 10 Dec '17
 TheShade

Just stab left if he stabs left to chamber, don't forget that stabs are also directional, no need to be able to morph to all directions. It would look weird animation wise if it was possible anyways.

Knight 615 1118
  • 11 Dec '17
 Uncy

@s522662 said:
and stab drags have no problem, they are actually bad in terms of dragging. I recommend a monitor of 144hz to be able to recognize that amount of speed and reaction.

You are not even playing Mordhau so what do you know?

Duke 2266 4010
  • 11 Dec '17
 Huggles

@Uncy said:

@s522662 said:
and stab drags have no problem, they are actually bad in terms of dragging. I recommend a monitor of 144hz to be able to recognize that amount of speed and reaction.

You are not even playing Mordhau so what do you know?

This is pretty generic advice everyone should already know about tho tbh.

Conscript 4564 6302
  • 1
  • 11 Dec '17
 vanguard

@TheShade said:
Just stab left if he stabs left to chamber, don't forget that stabs are also directional, no need to be able to morph to all directions. It would look weird animation wise if it was possible anyways.

I find it unecessarily clunky, idk man. Isnt there a talk about new animations and all that? Maybe its possible, who knows

46 64
  • 13 Dec '17
 Rift

I completely agree with all of these issues. I believe the priority is fixing windup and acceleration speed throughout pretty much all weapons and balancing them so you can properly punish and deliver balanced strikes. Stab drags are a complete nuisance as you can literally tilt your mouse any direction, even take it in circles around the player leading to a difficult chamber as they can bring it back down at any given time and the animation doesn't properly show when it's about to enter release.

Knight 697 1611
  • 13 Dec '17
 das

@Jangl3 said:

  • Attacks going through parry/chamber

I was relieved when I heard this happening to others. I thought I was going crazy.

Agreed.

  • Stabs being instant/Having bad animations

Yes, stabs are the strongest they've ever been. Inside-your-torso strike-to-stab chamber morphs have always been stupidly hard to counterchamber even before lockout patch IIRC. I am clearly morphing and aiming correctly in reaction, but it just hits through.

It's not just Oberyn's spear that suddenly feels 3x harder to chamber over a single patch. EVERY stab is much harder to chamber now. Difficulty itself isn't bad, but the reason it is difficult is bad: bad animations among other factors. The stabs don't visually match what makes sense in where to chamber.

But talking about animations is beating a dead horse.

Agreed.

  • Being unable to morph to the opposite side

Actually, I think having to match their strike stab in anticipation of them possibly morphing is a substantial extra skill. It was a huge skill that me, Hadeus, and June were developing back in patch 7 or 8 or so (pre lockout). Otherwise, anytime your stab is chambered against a non-draggable weapon, you can just mindlessly spam stab and then be able to morph any direction if they morph. That, and it does give ripostes and late "riposte" -> morph drags and such more value.

  • Being unable to punish after attempting a chamber

This is incredibly annoying and broken in a sense, and you already detailed pretty well why there isn't a simple fix. Agreed.

  • Tracers being too long

I was quite surprised myself how wide attacks are in the game. Accidental teamhits and off-screen LMB drags are my trademarks.

Agreed.

  • Projectiles flinching

This would be fine in a 1v1 game, but it's not 1v1. Here's more food for thought: should thrown javelins flinch?

  • Teammates flinching

One of the devs mentioned that hitting a teammate would halt your attack much like hitting a wall. I've been waiting for this for so long...

Agreed, teamhits should not flinch the teammate. In my opinion, it shouldn't cause any screen punching or model flinching either, so that it doesn't mask their attack animations to enemies.

  • Windup dead zone

I can empathize with your frustration, but I accept this as a misplay/mistiming on my behalf rather than a problem with the game's mechanics. This doesn't happen to me often because, even in chamber frenzies, I try to anticipate their morph and chamber that upfront rather than spam counterchamber and morph accordingly. Rewards patience, conserves stamina, gives me the option to morph rather than having to use morph to chamber and thus leaving me predictable, and my skill is used to circumvent the possibility of this "dead zone". Dead zone is also crucial in exploiting people who overcommit and are about to whiff.

  • Inconsistent active parry

I am ass at 1vX. No input from me.

  • Attacks being queued without input

I think I noticed some ghost combo inputs. Not sure if mouse problem though.

  • Lockout

At least call it flinch lockout. But yes, this is quite annoying. I don't know if the devs intend for things like drag -> accel combo to be unchamberable for the second hit (your only option is to parry which, if they combo feint, shieeeeeeet. But hey, combo feints are relevant again!). It doesn't feel good, but it may be a matter of git gud. It certainly promotes drag -> accel and combo feints. I empathize and sympathize though.

Agreed.

Duke 2266 4010
  • 13 Dec '17
 Huggles

I think parry difficulty and chamber difficulty is perfect right now. Really don't have much of an issue with it. The only big issue to me this patch is foothit drags that if anything got buffed by the new slash curve. They gotta make adjustments with that.

What is actually annoying to me is not being able to parry when flinched sometimes.

Also active parry is still pretty infuriatingly inconsistent. Sometimes it's this gigantic force field of parry and sometimes it's like twice as small as the current parry box. Really want some visually indicator. It has gotten a lot better but not there yet at all.

Knight 697 1611
  • 1
  • 13 Dec '17
 das

@Huggles said:
I think parry difficulty and chamber difficulty is perfect right now.

I do think they're heading towards the right step. I like the decrease in window timing from 0.275 to 0.200s. Stabs shouldn't be freebies, but they're very ambiguous now + ridiculously fast to the point that me blindly gambling and mashing stab still fails to counterchamber even though I match direction + require laser precision to chamber or clash. Muh animations and netcode I guess... I always chambered strikes pretty late so I haven't had to adjust to that and get punished more often when I do fumble.

Count 671 1131
  • 13 Dec '17
 Zexis

@das said:
At least call it flinch lockout. But yes, this is quite annoying. I don't know if the devs intend for things like drag -> accel combo to be unchamberable for the second hit (your only option is to parry which, if they combo feint, shieeeeeeet. But hey, combo feints are relevant again!). It doesn't feel good, but it may be a matter of git gud. It certainly promotes drag -> accel and combo feints.

One of the devs mentioned I think on Discord that this is intended behavior. Personally I don't like it, it's difficult to determine if an attack is coming slow enough so I can attempt a chamber after flinch.

Knight 697 1611
  • 13 Dec '17
 das

Oh I'm also hoping there's some sort of checkbox you can tick so you can buffer/queue up attacks during other states like while you're still in windup. As of now, it only buffers/queues 200ms when you're parried/chambered.

Why? Because sometimes, I see a guy lookdown overheading before mine's even done, so I press overhead again in anticipation, but this input is just useless. With how fast shit is right now, spamming click isn't sufficient enough (not everyone uses mouse wheel), and have to keep aiming the same direction with 240 instead of just single flick + clicking in that kind of scenario.