Mordhau

Casuals are right, super slow drags are the biggest problem with the game.

Duke 2264 3998
  • 3
  • 6 Dec '17
 Huggles

Slow drags feel out of place, wonky, unintuitive, and can make combat really boring and, well, slow!

I never really thought this way until now. I've played mordhau for about 400 hours by now and I have over 3k hours in chiv, and hey, I was a zwei main in chiv, but this is definitely what I see as the biggest roadblock to prevent full enjoyment of the game. There is a reason why the duels I have the most fun with in mordhau are with arming swords, bastard swords, and longswords as opposed to evening stars, battleaxes, and zweihanders. And I've most definitely noticed some pretty strong consensus here as well. And an even bigger problem is that these crazy drags have a HUGE incentive to them due to the ease of chambering and mega drags being the only way to really fuck with chambers. Lockout definitely doesn't help either. And the devs KNOW that they look dumb otherwise these drags would certainly be shown off in the trailers.

IMPORTANT: The issue I have with these drags is NOT their balance. I think they ARE balanced, countered, etc. It is simply that these slow af drags are NOT FUN to constantly engage with.

From what I understand the upcoming patch will tilt the game away from this current somewhat infuriating meta, but I definitely hope that the vision the devs have for this game sees that the way, say, the sledgehammer is played with right now looks and feels dumb. And we should be moving away from these ridiculously slow swings and overall speeding up the combat.


I don't want the game to be too easy, and I definitely think that any major nerfs to what dragging delays can accomplish should most definitely be coupled with nerfs to how long parries last. I just think that the really long waits between strikes with weapons like the eveningstar just feel ridiculous and definitely need to be looked at again imho.


ALSO IMPORTANT: It's not like I want delay drags gone entirely. But, I'd say the slowest drags that are actually tolerable compared to the rest of the weapons is probably like the battleaxe. Even that is dreadfully slow to me but it is a solid compromise. Greatsword delays are to me the ballpark of what is tolerable and feels good.

3234 4249
  • 7 Dec '17
 Havoc

Better animations and fixing the input bug will go a loooong way to making drags look and feel a lot better.

Sellsword 615 1375
  • 7 Dec '17
 BobSapp

we already know these are being dropped from the gameplay emphasis in the future but I think it bears repeating anyway

I don't even mind the gameplay itself, given that most of us just did it in C:MW for years. It's just compared to chamber exchanges, subtle drags and snappier, faster gameplay it's obnoxious to sit around waiting for giant weapons to travel through the air, from some dude who's leaning back 70 degrees, looking at the sky, not even facing you so he can hit you in the foot

it just takes me back to C:MW instantly, it's an awful aesthetic combined with less interesting gameplay for me

1298 2867
  • 7 Dec '17
 Monsteri

Nah, they're fine.

You're forgetting that the game is nothing but full heavies without the point system so the slower 2-hitters become much more commonplace than they would otherwise be.

Conscript 4458 6140
  • 7 Dec '17
 vanguard

I think as a concept its nice, changing the pace of the fight.

140 66
  • 7 Dec '17
 s522662

@Huggles said:
Slow drags feel out of place, wonky, unintuitive, and can make combat really boring and, well, slow!

I never really thought this way until now. I've played mordhau for about 400 hours by now and I have over 3k hours in chiv, and hey, I was a zwei main in chiv, but this is definitely what I see as the biggest roadblock to prevent full enjoyment of the game. There is a reason why the duels I have the most fun with in mordhau are with arming swords, bastard swords, and longswords as opposed to evening stars, battleaxes, and zweihanders. And I've most definitely noticed some pretty strong consensus here as well. And an even bigger problem is that these crazy drags have a HUGE incentive to them due to the ease of chambering and mega drags being the only way to really fuck with chambers. Lockout definitely doesn't help either. And the devs KNOW that they look dumb otherwise these drags would certainly be shown off in the trailers.

IMPORTANT: The issue I have with these drags is NOT their balance. I think they ARE balanced, countered, etc. It is simply that these slow af drags are NOT FUN to constantly engage with.

From what I understand the upcoming patch will tilt the game away from this current somewhat infuriating meta, but I definitely hope that the vision the devs have for this game sees that the way, say, the sledgehammer is played with right now looks and feels dumb. And we should be moving away from these ridiculously slow swings and overall speeding up the combat.


I don't want the game to be too easy, and I definitely think that any major nerfs to what dragging delays can accomplish should most definitely be coupled with nerfs to how long parries last. I just think that the really long waits between strikes with weapons like the eveningstar just feel ridiculous and definitely need to be looked at again imho.

do you want to end the human race?

Mercenary 1024 1884

I don't mind long drags, but I HATE being unable to counter certain weapons because the lockout time is too long/the release time for certain weapons too fast. So actually accels bother me more at the moment.

Drags were a staple of C:MW and, in my opinion, they should be in Mordhau. I'm sure they will be easier to deal with when the animations are improved.

Duke 354 384
  • 7 Dec '17
 AFluffyKnight

It would be nice if they actually fix the ballerina drags like they advertised the game would be without, but whatever.

Count 3872 8113
  • 7 Dec '17
 TheDankestMeme

@Huggles said:
I think they ARE balanced, countered, etc. It is simply that these slow af drags are NOT FUN to constantly engage with.**

next update: removed every weapon exept the fists

Count 671 1130
  • 7 Dec '17
 Zexis

necessary evil as they're an important soft counter to parries and chambers, else every fight is played at nearly the same pace.

adjustments like the overhead -> horizontal drag are good too. I have faith that by beta or at least full release that any new players saying the drags are as bad as chiv are willfully ignorant.

Baron 1551 2073
  • 7 Dec '17
 yourcrippledson

Can't tell if trolling. Someone help me out haha... ha

Knight 3 3
  • 8 Dec '17
 deftpwns

I personally despise the parrying system in the game presently. I don't understand why the game punishes you for having quick reflexes. Drags can still be used if parries could be held, but as it stands, skill and speed are less important for winning than abusing swing mechanics and turning the opposite way from where you're swinging to delay the blow landing and to overcome nearly any attempt to parry. It's completely unrealistic, physically impossible to do IRL with any force behind the swing without rupturing vertebrae in your back, and subsists of mechanics that they promised would not be in the game.

As it stands, I rarely even play any more because there is no way to overcome this meta, and it is not fun as a player without hundreds of hours abusing these same poor mechanics in Chivalry. I'm not alone in this opinion, many of my long time gaming friends in the alpha from M&B Warbands servers and the now unfortunately offline War of the Roses are voicing similar opinions, and likely has something to do with the abysmally low US East server populations compared to the alpha launch.

While I understand that Mordhau is still in alpha, and I still support the devs wholeheartedly. I can't help but feel that instead of Mordhau becoming the next big thing, it's turning out to be just more of the same.

Just my $0.02

301 874
  • 1
  • 8 Dec '17
 Naleaus

@deftpwns said:
I don't understand why the game punishes you for having quick reflexes. Drags can still be used if parries could be held, but as it stands, skill and speed are less important for winning than abusing swing mechanics and turning the opposite way from where you're swinging to delay the blow landing and to overcome nearly any attempt to parry.

I'm not going to argue for or against drags/held blocks or whatever, but you're not being punished for having fast reflexes. You're being punished for not being able to read your opponent, which is a skill issue. If you have time to see that they are delaying an attack, you should have the reflexes to not hit the parry button early, or wait and chamber, footwork around and force a miss, or run into the attack and force an early parry.

Not enjoying the mechanics is fine, can't please everyone. But don't act like the mechanics don't take skill just because you don't like them.

140 66
  • 8 Dec '17
 s522662

@AFluffyKnight said:
It would be nice if they actually fix the ballerina drags like they advertised the game would be without, but whatever.

applying dragging with ballerina so the common men would jump into conclusion

Knight 3 3
  • 8 Dec '17
 deftpwns

@Naleaus said:

Not enjoying the mechanics is fine, can't please everyone. But don't act like the mechanics don't take skill just because you don't like them.

I never said that it didn't take skill, I said it wasn't fun and was unrealistic. Our difference in opinions doesn't change the fact that dragging is the only meta in the game and that you have to abuse the mechanic to be in the upper tiers of competitiveness. It's hard to get in footwork or anything else when the parry mechanic is so unforgiving that one misread on drags is almost always a death sentence.

140 66
  • 8 Dec '17
 s522662

@deftpwns said:

@Naleaus said:

Not enjoying the mechanics is fine, can't please everyone. But don't act like the mechanics don't take skill just because you don't like them.

I never said that it didn't take skill, I said it wasn't fun and was unrealistic. Our difference in opinions doesn't change the fact that dragging is the only meta in the game and that you have to abuse the mechanic to be in the upper tiers of competitiveness. It's hard to get in footwork or anything else when the parry mechanic is so unforgiving that one misread on drags is almost always a death sentence.

same goes with fients or chambers.........?

301 874
  • 8 Dec '17
 Naleaus

@deftpwns said:

@Naleaus said:

Not enjoying the mechanics is fine, can't please everyone. But don't act like the mechanics don't take skill just because you don't like them.

I never said that it didn't take skill, I said it wasn't fun and was unrealistic. Our difference in opinions doesn't change the fact that dragging is the only meta in the game and that you have to abuse the mechanic to be in the upper tiers of competitiveness. It's hard to get in footwork or anything else when the parry mechanic is so unforgiving that one misread on drags is almost always a death sentence.

You said skill and timing are less important than using drags, insinuating that drags do not require skill. If that's not what you meant, maybe word it differently next time.

As for the meta, you're wrong from my experience. Chambering is the meta, with the other mechanics being used to try and get around it due to how prevalent they are in current higher level duels.

I think the issue isn't that the timed parries are unforgiving, but that you don't enjoy them, causing you to have less desire to get better. There is a learning curve to the game that is unfortunately not present in the alpha. You're being forced to play with tryhards instead of learning the game with other new players, making things seem less fair. Whether being eased in would increase your enjoyment, I couldn't say. But with time and practice, timed parries work fine, and parrying most things becomes pretty easy.

Mercenary 35 145

@Huggles said:
Slow drags feel out of place, wonky, unintuitive, and can make combat really boring and, well, slow!

You do realise you can just press space bar when you see slow drags...

If you don't want to snore and then parry, you can just jump when you see an incoming drag and counter it. Jumping drags in mordhau seems easier than in chiv given how slow and predictable some weapons are in this game. (Try jumping a drag against a sledgehammer btw it might change ur life.)

Of course your opponent will get used to getting jumped and will start disguising his accels as extreme drags but this could also be used to your advantage depending on how you mind game it (basic fight iq). Jumping drags against fast or normal speed weapons can be suicidal, but against slow weapons like poleaxe, evening star, zwei and halberd which ur post seems directed at... it really is quite easy especially if you have 400 hours wtf learn 2 walk b4 u talk. Jumping drags completely shutsdown ur complaint of extreme drags making combat slow since with a change in playstyle it can make combat even faster. Even if you can no longer jump drags from a certain player since he has caught on, if you've made ur opponent 2 scared to drag you, then you have solved the problem of a slow paced fight.

Regarding slow fights being boring and being the "biggest roadblock", that is a very strong opinion. There are people who enjoy patiently torturing their victims (cough cough leviathan from land of AU). The game offers slow and fast playstyles but many players are using the former which might be the cause of ur issue rather than slow playstyles themselves being unhealthy. I think the problem is that without a proficiency system yet that balances out these extreme weapons and with "skilled" players being afraid of 1hers since they are still cheesy with wonky af counter-play, the game has pushed many players to using a select few weapons which has crippled the diversity of fights.

And the point about new maul being 2 slow and "feeling dumb". Thats the fucking point of sledgehammer. It cant be equipped normally since it is a meme map pickup that is played like meme.

301 874
  • 1
  • 8 Dec '17
 Naleaus

@colessmartshopper said:

Just a note in case you haven't played the new patch, the change to overheads to give them a curve at the end makes them a lot harder to jump and much more of a gamble. Also, jump stam usage was increased. It's really not a good counter anymore.

Mercenary 35 145

I haven't played since new patch, didn't know there even was new patch-thanks for the heads up. I'll check it out now, shame if you cant reliably jump drags anymore. It was fun while it lasted, godbless.