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Harder chamber but more rewarded

1315 2881
  • 4 Dec '17
 Monsteri

@Sir Zombie said:
I heard that it was just feints in general that seemed more aggresive (animation).

Yeah but chamber feints are really easy to read because there is almost no motion, if you have your opponent in full view you're never gonna fall for one. It looks more like a weird parry than an attack.

When there's more motion it will look more like an attack, thus harder to determine if it's a feint or not.

Count 671 1131
  • 4 Dec '17
 Zexis

@TheShade said:
The only person that I've encountered to actually try counter chamber feints is Coutsalivis. He mostly only chambers when someone else chambers his first attack, since he sees the windup and chamber animation when you attack his attack. He knows which attack to strike back with and there for managing to avoid and also punish chamber feint attemts.

I don't disagree with the overall sentiment of your post but chamber morphs make such behavior borderline gambling, depending on the matchup and other variables

Knight 292 904
  • 1
  • 4 Dec '17
 GIRUGIRU

Stamina play should have a bigger impact within the future as currently it does not due to Stam and hp on kills and the disarm working the way it does.

If you have a 3v3 with extremely skilled players you cannot deny that chambering will make a massive difference - stamina does matter and high level play will require you to chamber

The only buff I can think to chambers is that they drain your opponent stamina in some way, rather than buffing their offensive power.

EDIT:

feints are weak currently because the anims are very easy to read, this will - as far as i am aware - change with the animation update and they will become more intimidating, which i imagine would include chamber feints

Knight 32 40
  • 4 Dec '17
 Fang

@GIRUGIRU said:
Stamina play should have a bigger impact within the future as currently it does not due to Stam and hp on kills and the disarm working the way it does.

If you have a 3v3 with extremely skilled players you cannot deny that chambering will make a massive difference - stamina does matter and high level play will require you to chamber

The only buff I can think to chambers is that they drain your opponent stamina in some way, rather than buffing their offensive power.

EDIT:

feints are weak currently because the anims are very easy to read, this will - as far as i am aware - change with the animation update and they will become more intimidating, which i imagine would include chamber feints

The only person that I've encountered to actually try counter chamber feints is Coutsalivis.

95 102
  • 1
  • 4 Dec '17
 TheShade

@Fang said:

@GIRUGIRU said:
Stamina play should have a bigger impact within the future as currently it does not due to Stam and hp on kills and the disarm working the way it does.

If you have a 3v3 with extremely skilled players you cannot deny that chambering will make a massive difference - stamina does matter and high level play will require you to chamber

The only buff I can think to chambers is that they drain your opponent stamina in some way, rather than buffing their offensive power.

EDIT:

feints are weak currently because the anims are very easy to read, this will - as far as i am aware - change with the animation update and they will become more intimidating, which i imagine would include chamber feints

The only person that I've encountered to actually try counter chamber feints is Coutsalivis.

Tbh Coutsavlis was just the first person that came to mind, there are others, but none of those that complains about it are attempting to actually train to counter it. It's most likely those that consider it overpowered that use chambers the least. Also, a quick ripost can be somewhat hard to distinguish from a chamber sometimes and sometimes it's easy to distinguish. I think it might have something to do with the directional parry into a specific directional swing that makes it either hard or easy to see if it's a chamber or a riposte.

It would be a lot easier to tell if it was a chamber or a riposte if you could hear the difference between the two more clearly. Since the information from what we hear goes a lot quicker to the brain compared to the visual information our eyes gives. Right now it kinda sounds similar to a parry (in some cases a clear chamber noice appears). That could help people to counter chamber feints a lot easier and would make it a lot easier for people to chamber back a chamberer while not discouraging people to never chamber again.

Imo it's atleast worth a shot to see how it works. Then you wouldn't have to worry about falling for a camber feint and it would solve the chambering problem that some have. It would most likely satisfy both parts, those that either think chambering is overpowered and those that want to keep it as it is.

I also agree on reducing chamber window with .25ms.

Knight 222 187
  • 1
  • 5 Dec '17
 REKTKWONDO

@GIRUGIRU said:
Stamina play should have a bigger impact within the future as currently it does not due to Stam and hp on kills and the disarm working the way it does.

If you have a 3v3 with extremely skilled players you cannot deny that chambering will make a massive difference - stamina does matter and high level play will require you to chamber

The only buff I can think to chambers is that they drain your opponent stamina in some way, rather than buffing their offensive power.

EDIT:

feints are weak currently because the anims are very easy to read, this will - as far as i am aware - change with the animation update and they will become more intimidating, which i imagine would include chamber feints

Feint anim change nothing, you read feint with sound, you hear the sound of the feint you punish, you hear the grunt start, you Chamb/Parry

95 102
  • 3
  • 5 Dec '17
 TheShade

Currently the best players are those that don't rely very much on the new mechanics and mostly on their Chivalry experience alone. To balance things to be more like Chivalry could potentially damage and prevent the competitive scene to grow in the future since old Chiv players would start with a very high skill level. Currently we are only balancing things at very high levelplay and not considering equally as much the newcomers.

In Chivalry it was very hard parry on sound alone, considering the fact that the moment you grunted, the same moment you could get hit (If accel). On chambers though, you would hear if it's a chamber during its windup and the same goes for riposts, but instead right before its windup. It would be make it quite a lot easier to tell if it's a chamber or a riposte since you would have more time to hear and determine the differences.

Knight 292 904
  • 5 Dec '17
 GIRUGIRU

@REKTKWONDO said:
Feint anim change nothing, you read feint with sound, you hear the sound of the feint you punish, you hear the grunt start, you Chamb/Parry

What ? Feint anim means nothing ? Guess that's why people were consistently reading facehug stab feints and groundsniff OH feints in Chiv. /s

Again, I will iterate that the games flow in team engagements will be horrific if everyone is trying to chamber constantly. Slasher test had this issue at some point and I am confident the devs will not allow that to happen again as it's completely cancer.

Chamberhau is only good for 1v1 only, and even then I'd rather just play games of Simon says than something so shallow in depth. Chambers do not need to be buffed offensively.

95 102
  • 5 Dec '17
 TheShade

@GIRUGIRU said:

@REKTKWONDO said:
Feint anim change nothing, you read feint with sound, you hear the sound of the feint you punish, you hear the grunt start, you Chamb/Parry

What ? Feint anim means nothing ? Guess that's why people were consistently reading facehug stab feints and groundsniff OH feints in Chiv. /s

Again, I will iterate that the games flow in team engagements will be horrific if everyone is trying to chamber constantly. Slasher test had this issue at some point and I am confident the devs will not allow that to happen again as it's completely cancer.

Chamberhau is only good for 1v1 only, and even then I'd rather just play games of Simon says than something so shallow in depth. Chambers do not need to be buffed offensively.

Well, Idk about complete cancer. Many chamberers loves it. It brings new life to the game and a goal to improve. It's very rewarding to pull of chambers, even if you don't manage to land a hit on your opponent. That is why the people that chambers are online very often, including myself. Many switches to other games since they get tired of Mordhau, we need more content of course but for someone like me, that keeps chambering, I never play anything else than Mordhau since I don't get tired of it. Simply put it, I don't completely buy the cancer part with chambering. I don't wan't everyone to always chamber everything, but I don't want the opposite even more so. There are a few reasons why chambers shouldn't be encouraged by everyone as well, but I'm just afraid of the thought that chambers, which feels very rewarding, will get nerfed a bit too much.

Knight 222 187
  • 5 Dec '17
 REKTKWONDO

You speaking about chivalry... I speak about Mordhau. Everyone know that feint were broken in chiv.

Knight 3153 7400
  • 5 Dec '17
 Punzybobo

I think feints were only broken in Chiv because of a lack of mechanics like clashing and chambering, your only option when feinted was to attack first (If you read properly and quickly) or parry any real attacks.

Knight 292 904
  • 1
  • 6 Dec '17
 GIRUGIRU

Remove chambering, add more extended windup animations (so you can put the feints inside of people) and lower feint recovery - you have chivs feints minus the netcode

Just because it's a different game doesn't change the fundamentals of Melee Slasher. If feints are buffed to close to Chivalry levels then chambers will become much more rewarding without needing to be buffed.

Dosent matter for you though as you just sit behind a shield 8 hours a day

Knight 222 187
  • 1
  • 6 Dec '17
 REKTKWONDO

I play every weapons, not only shield, and you need to read feint with shield, as same as without, and it's about the mechanic.. Code/Netcode were shit in Chivalry, that's the first problem about feinting in chiv.
Opponent hit you before the grunt sound in chivalry.

95 102
  • 6 Dec '17
 TheShade

Actually, currently scrap my comment about the sound thingy. I've changed my mind. Might bring it up in the future though.

Duchess 806 3550
  • 7 Dec '17
 Stouty

If you make the time window for chambers too tight then they'll become an obscure mechanic that's too risky to attempt and only occurs by accident as seen in M&B multiplayer, if they're too easy they become the best option in any given scenario and fights are dictated by who can chamber the most/who fails their chamber first. The only solution I can see is the chamber meter idea à la revenge mode from for honour but with chambers

Mercenary 1263 2304

I'm sorry but for people with ordinary reflexes, not 'I have 3000 hours in chivalry and play melee games competitively'-reflexes, chambers are already hard af to pull off.

Knight 289 201
  • 9 Dec '17
 TheUprising

@GIRUGIRU said:
Remove chambering, add more extended windup animations (so you can put the feints inside of people) and lower feint recovery - you have chivs feints minus the netcode

Just because it's a different game doesn't change the fundamentals of Melee Slasher. If feints are buffed to close to Chivalry levels then chambers will become much more rewarding without needing to be buffed.

Dosent matter for you though as you just sit behind a shield 8 hours a day

I promise you the animation update will make reading angles EASIER if anything. They already made chambers harder to do in this patch, the thing that irks me about chambers is that the direction you're facing hardly matters as long as you get somewhere near the vicinity of the attack angle right and most importantly, the TIMING. Of course if the direction you were facing DID matter then it would be VERY hard to chamber things like overhead side-drag to the legs.

And everything NEEDS to be able to be chambered because chamber counters the cancerous rock paper scissors mechanic known as feint. You die in 3 hits, that's 3 feints/non feints, sort of like rock paper scissors best of 5.

Duke 2266 4010
  • 11 Dec '17
 Huggles

@TheShade said:
Currently the best players are those that don't rely very much on the new mechanics and mostly on their Chivalry experience alone. To balance things to be more like Chivalry could potentially damage and prevent the competitive scene to grow in the future since old Chiv players would start with a very high skill level. Currently we are only balancing things at very high levelplay and not considering equally as much the newcomers.

In Chivalry it was very hard parry on sound alone, considering the fact that the moment you grunted, the same moment you could get hit (If accel). On chambers though, you would hear if it's a chamber during its windup and the same goes for riposts, but instead right before its windup. It would be make it quite a lot easier to tell if it's a chamber or a riposte since you would have more time to hear and determine the differences.

umm, you're wrong. Almost everyone that is good fully utilizes morphs and chambers. Mechanics that never existed in chivalry. Plenty of good players are also pretty reliant and consistent on forcing clashes as well, another mechanic never present in chivalry. Mordhau currently has parrying that is significantly different than chivalry as well as major tone down drags.

A lot of chivalry "vets" relied on sow stab feints, spin spam trashing, and maa dodge spam. All these playstyles are dead and gone in mordhau. The people who are good at mordhau are the people who played chivalry the "right" way. Mordhau was always intended to be what chiv should have been, so of course chivalry veterans who hated all the bullshit in chivalry are the most hyped and the most ready to learn and train and therefore the best players. A lot of skill carried over from chivalry but the most optimal way to play mordhau is absolutely NOT the most optimal way to play chivalry. The opposite is even more true in a much more extreme way.

95 102
  • 11 Dec '17
 TheShade

@Huggles said:

@TheShade said:
Currently the best players are those that don't rely very much on the new mechanics and mostly on their Chivalry experience alone. To balance things to be more like Chivalry could potentially damage and prevent the competitive scene to grow in the future since old Chiv players would start with a very high skill level. Currently we are only balancing things at very high levelplay and not considering equally as much the newcomers.

In Chivalry it was very hard parry on sound alone, considering the fact that the moment you grunted, the same moment you could get hit (If accel). On chambers though, you would hear if it's a chamber during its windup and the same goes for riposts, but instead right before its windup. It would be make it quite a lot easier to tell if it's a chamber or a riposte since you would have more time to hear and determine the differences.

umm, you're wrong. Almost everyone that is good fully utilizes morphs and chambers. Mechanics that never existed in chivalry. Plenty of good players are also pretty reliant and consistent on forcing clashes as well, another mechanic never present in chivalry. Mordhau currently has parrying that is significantly different than chivalry as well as major tone down drags.

A lot of chivalry "vets" relied on sow stab feints, spin spam trashing, and maa dodge spam. All these playstyles are dead and gone in mordhau. The people who are good at mordhau are the people who played chivalry the "right" way. Mordhau was always intended to be what chiv should have been, so of course chivalry veterans who hated all the bullshit in chivalry are the most hyped and the most ready to learn and train and therefore the best players. A lot of skill carried over from chivalry but the most optimal way to play mordhau is absolutely NOT the most optimal way to play chivalry. The opposite is even more true in a much more extreme way.

No

Knight 697 1611
  • 12 Dec '17
 das

Name 5 "current best players" in Mordhau, @TheShade. I'm curious what your perspective looks like.