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Harder chamber but more rewarded

Knight 222 187
  • 2
  • 2 Dec '17
 REKTKWONDO

Hey ! Here some good change to make chamber harder but more rewarded.

-How to make chamber harder ?

Decrease chamber parry windows : 200 or 225 MS instead of the 275 we have now.

Dont allow Overhead chamber with swing or Underhead Chamber with swing, or vice versa
Sometime I overhead to an opponent, he chamber with an attack between Overhead and swing, then I can chamber back with swing. It's weird.
How to fix ? Make people able to chamber an attack between Overhead and Swing with perfect Overhead or Swing angle, or with perfect 240 angle but dont allow people to chamber a perfect angle Overhead or swing with an animation between it. Same for Underhead/Swing

-Now how to make chamber more rewarded :
As you know, the main problem atm is that Normal Riposte are harder to chamber and better than the Chamber Riposte.

-So, allow people to instantly attack after a Chamber feint, no lockout, or just 25 MS to dont broke the animation.
Give the chamber boost speed for an attack after a Chamber feint, same windows than Normal Riposte (only kick shouldnt get the speed boost, and get a lock after the chamber feint)

It will reward more the guy that chamber first and give him a riposte better than Normal Riposte, chamber morph will still be useful cause faster, and it will give another timing. It will force opponent to read the feint and chamber back with the good attack.

-Fix Lockout and Flinch time :
Less lockout per weapons, add a queue to it

For flinch :

Make an appropriate flinchtime for every weapons.
25 % less flinch with stab, cause stab have less release time than cut attack.
And less flinch time when you hit opponent in the last 33 % of your attack release time (only for cut attack).

Ofc the 25 % and 33 % number should be tweaked it just to give an example.
With it, it will allow people to chamber every combo of every weapons
Why a guys that know how to chamber should be at the same level than a noob, to parry a combo ? It shouldnt, the guys who know how to chamb should be rewarded for it, and should be able to use it.

Conscript 4564 6302
  • 2 Dec '17
 vanguard

I'm against the chamber angle being more restrictive, because it will fuck with who uses the 240 system, as it it pretty fucking difficult to pull of a exact angle in the heat of a fight.

This will force people to use binds, so no Imho.

Knight 57 63
  • 1
  • 2 Dec '17
 Edmund

Yeah let's buff chamber feint even more, to improve your playstyle, it's not like chamber feint is already the meta or broken, chamber feint animation are completely readable, right.....

-remove chamber feint / so everything in the game is readable / stop the stupid meta / make fight better since you have to mix again, using drag etc, not just chamber

This will make chamber weaker ofc but for the best

-so buff chamber with something else, more damage or stamina buff or something else.

1315 2881
  • 1
  • 2 Dec '17
 Monsteri

@REKTKWONDO said:
Dont allow Overhead chamber with swing or Underhead Chamber with swing, or vice versa
Sometime I overhead to an opponent, he chamber with an attack between Overhead and swing, then I can chamber back with swing. It's weird.
How to fix ? Make people able to chamber an attack between Overhead and Swing with perfect Overhead or Swing angle, or with perfect 240 angle but dont allow people to chamber a perfect angle Overhead or swing with an animation between it. Same for Underhead/Swing

This confused me so I went to clarify what did he mean by this in steam chat, here's the explanation in case anyone else was scratching their heads:

RED is the attack angle
GREEN is what it can chamber

chamber.png

A perfect overhead or a perfect slash should be able to chamber every angle inbetween.

chamber2.png

However, inbetween the perfect angles, attacks would be able to chamber only the very near vicinity. In effect screwing over 240 and making that system worthless to use.
So that's what he meant.

Capture.PNG

Knight 1061 2850
  • 1
  • 2 Dec '17
 Valmirius

Making chamber feints and their following attack hit before the opponent's chamber attempt even more than they do now is a good way to cripple one of the best mechanics in the game.

Knight 222 187
  • 2 Dec '17
 REKTKWONDO

Edmund : Chamber feint are easy to read and counter, if you are so bad to counter them its your fault.

@Valmirius said:
Making chamber feints and their following attack hit before the opponent's chamber attempt even more than they do now is a good way to cripple one of the best mechanics in the game.

So give the ability to chamber and riposte at every side, 7 side, just like normal riposte.

Knight 292 904
  • 2 Dec '17
 GIRUGIRU

no dynamic flinch, will just make the game feel clunky and inconsistent especially in 1vX

chambers should be a "skill play" not the defining skill of the game, i don't think making chambers retardedly strong with a janky no-lockout looking attack is a good idea

there is more to the game than chambering, and if you encourage chambering any more than it is already it's just going to turn the game into some autism gambling game where people "chamber" your back as you try to switch targets

punishing the attacker is a shit idea, last thing i want to see is this game turn into For Honor turtle meta

95 102
  • 1
  • 2 Dec '17
 TheShade

@Edmund said:
Yeah let's buff chamber feint even more, to improve your playstyle, it's not like chamber feint is already the meta or broken, chamber feint animation are completely readable, right.....

-remove chamber feint / so everything in the game is readable / stop the stupid meta / make fight better since you have to mix again, using drag etc, not just chamber

This will make chamber weaker ofc but for the best

-so buff chamber with something else, more damage or stamina buff or something else.

Like you and almost every other Chivalry player that abandons the new mechanics in the game (to make their playstyle fit their Chivalry style) you simply do not know how to counter chamber feints. The only person that I've encountered to actually try counter chamber feints is Coutsalivis. He mostly only chambers when someone else chambers his first attack, since he sees the windup and chamber animation when you attack his attack. He knows which attack to strike back with and there for managing to avoid and also punish chamber feint attemts. It isn't very hard to learn, but since some people are having trouble seeing the difference between a chamber or a ripost, the animations or sound need to make it more clear if it is a chamber or a ripost. But it won't be hard to see the difference between the two when people reach 1k hours of playtime.

Currently there are only a handful of good chamberers around that has the help from their Chivalry experience to pull it off. To weaken chambers would discourage it so increadibly much for newer players to ever try chambering. Just drag or accel an average competitive Chivalry player if you know he is about to chamber and you easily land a hit.

Chamber is one the most amazing mechanics in this game and makes fights look interesting and quick paced instead of fights being slow and boring. It is something that should be encouraged to do while mixing other attacks. Limiting chambers would discourage people to use this new mechanic and would just make everything like Chivalry all over again if Chiv players didn't try to adjust to the new mechanics. I don't want the competitive scene to be dominated with the use of Chivalry mechanocs all over again. Don't stick with your old habbits that you have formed for thousands of hours. Give the new innovations a chance.

Knight 222 187
  • 1
  • 2 Dec '17
 REKTKWONDO

@GIRUGIRU said:
no dynamic flinch, will just make the game feel clunky and inconsistent especially in 1vX

chambers should be a "skill play" not the defining skill of the game, i don't think making chambers retardedly strong with a janky no-lockout looking attack is a good idea

there is more to the game than chambering, and if you encourage chambering any more than it is already it's just going to turn the game into some autism gambling game where people "chamber" your back as you try to switch targets

punishing the attacker is a shit idea, last thing i want to see is this game turn into For Honor turtle meta

Its not really a dynamic flinch, but a flinch per weapons.

That's why I want chamber harder, and chamber is a way to parry, it cant substite other mechanic. And ofc if you miss or switch target you get countered by "chamber", chamber are here to counter miss too

I dont say I want the attacker to get punished, I just want a Chamber riposte harder to chamber back/Parry than normal riposte, ofc it should be rewarded cause you take risk to do. Logic

Why people will chamber if it give you a worst riposte than the normal riposte ? Illogical
Stamina ? No cause its easy to chamber a chamber riposte and dont lose stamina too
ChamberFeint ? No cause its actually easy to read or counter feint
Speed of the riposte ? No cause it just a little bit faster, and easy to chamber back.

So yeah we really need to be able to chamber riposte at everyside, just as normal parry. To make people that cant chamber a normal riposte, not able to chamber a chamber riposte too.

21 33
  • 1
  • 2 Dec '17
 Clockers

@TheShade said:
Like you and almost every other Chivalry player that abandons the new mechanics in the game (to make their playstyle fit their Chivalry style) you simply do not know how to counter chamber feints.

Okay... i'm sad now, my chambers are inexistant ;_;

Knight 697 1611
  • 3 Dec '17
 das

@REKTKWONDO said:
Why people will chamber if it give you a worst riposte than the normal riposte ?

Because morph and morph feints exist.

Knight 222 187
  • 3
  • 3 Dec '17
 REKTKWONDO

Morph are easy to counter as same as normal feint, and you can double parry them still if you are a noob.
Chamber morph is too easy to counter too, cause you have less possibility than normal riposte.

7 angle with normal riposte
1 angle with chamber riposte
3 angle for chamber morph Stab-Into-Cut
1 angle for chamber morph Cut-Into-Stab

It make chamber riposte worst than Normal Riposte atm, so yeah there is no reason atm. Better lose 10 stamina to get the best riposte instead of chamber.

Normal morph should stay as it is now
But for Chamber Morph Riposte we should be able to Morph Cut into Cut, Or Stab into each Cut, and not only the side of the Stab.

An example : I chamb a swing coming from my right, I should be able to chamb riposte/morph with a Left Overhead.

Knight 86 133
  • 3 Dec '17
 Raegarth

What am I reading (thinking about Ed's post)

But let's move on.
Chamber shouldn't be harder. Only few of alpha players - and we all know that alpha player database is mainly former Chiv vets - are mastering chambering. I know that because I've been mad for weeks trying to chamber against "normal" parrying guys.

I always said that if we want players to go into chambering we don't have to make it harder because they will settle for normal parry and some random stab chambering. Instead of that we have to give it more power OR really nerf normal parry riposte.

I mean when I chamber I have 3 solutions :

1, If I chamber an overhead, I can riposte with an overhead
2, If I chamber an attack, I can chamber feint (I have to hope that my opponent don't read it because yes, if he chambers too I get a free hit)
3, If I chamber an attack, I can morph to a stab

When I do normal riposte, I can :

1, Switch to any 240 attack with the same speed of a chamber riposte (?)
2, Wait. (which is kind of feint if for example it occures after severals attacks)

And that at the low price of few stamina points.

I want normal parry ripostes to be slower, so that gives chamber ripostes a real advantage.

King, except to discourage people to chamber more, I don't see (atm) the point of making chamber harder. I imagine it's about the skill (c/g)ap. You'd be able to settle with a more little chamber window so let's do it and f*ck the others ?

Knight 292 904
  • 4 Dec '17
 GIRUGIRU

The strength to chambering is that you gain a stamina advantage and you auto read any feint. It's a risk, already has very strong payout it does not need any more

Its a defensive mechanic, buffing chamber offensive capability starts to make it like a Parry in For Honor (very, very bad game design)

If chambering is over-used, which will happen by making it overly rewarding, it will just make teamfights cancer with absolutely no flow and 1v1s about nothing but chambers

Making chambers harder is also a bad option because then you just alienate weaker players from an entire mechanic.

Knight 86 133
  • 4 Dec '17
 Raegarth

@GIRUGIRU said:
The strength to chambering is that you gain a stamina advantage and you auto read any feint. It's a risk, already has very strong payout it does not need any more

Making chambers harder is also a bad option because then you just alienate weaker players from an entire mechanic.

Stamina advantage after 15-20 sec of fight, and that implies that you chamber way way more than your opponent. When I train with my buds I can’t chamber all their attacks because heh, they’re a minimum good. If I chamber 2/3 attacks I’m fine and they are rarely out of stamina before one of the two dies.

If there’s more advantages to chamber why aren’t we all chambering more than parrying ? Because the risks-learntime/gain ratio is not interesting atm.
That’s why I asked for a slighter advantage by making normal parry ripost slower

You put the perfect words on what i meant in an aproximative english with your last sentence. 😁

Knight 222 187
  • 1
  • 4 Dec '17
 REKTKWONDO

@GIRUGIRU said:
The strength to chambering is that you gain a stamina advantage and you auto read any feint. It's a risk, already has very strong payout it does not need any more

Its a defensive mechanic, buffing chamber offensive capability starts to make it like a Parry in For Honor (very, very bad game design)

If chambering is over-used, which will happen by making it overly rewarding, it will just make teamfights cancer with absolutely no flow and 1v1s about nothing but chambers

Making chambers harder is also a bad option because then you just alienate weaker players from an entire mechanic.

You dont win any stamina, cause the chamber riposte is too easy to chamber (thats why most of the people only chamber when they get chambered first, cause they cant chamber normal riposte), so you just take risk and get chambered back, so you dont win any stamina over your opponent.

Auto read ? You dont need Chamber to read feint at all. Normal feint and Chamber feint are already easy to read.
And with a slow windup weapons, against a fast windup weapons. you cant counter feint with chamb, so you still need to read.

It will never be as For Honor, For Honor parry give you a free hit, a free attack that cant be blocked back.
Read what I've write, I want better chamber riposte than Normal, as it should be, not a free attack, or a free hit.

Overly rewarding ? It not rewarded at all atm, so yeah, it need buff/boost

Alienate weaker player ? Ofc people that use the mechanic better should be rewarded, that's logic, as you said, Chamber is a way too parry, it does not replace other mechanic at all.

We need a highskillgap game, so mechanic that take time to learn should be rewarded.

Knight 86 133
  • 4 Dec '17
 Raegarth

You master chambering King that’s why you’re asking this. You’re not asking to increase the skill cap but only the skill gap between you and future players. On the rest I totally agree with you !

  • 4 Dec '17
 MrRag
This comment was deleted.
1315 2881
  • 4 Dec '17
 Monsteri

I heard chamber feints will get a buff and a stamina cost in the next build

Duchess 6896 9886
  • 4 Dec '17
 Sir Zombie

I heard that it was just feints in general that seemed more aggresive (animation).