Mordhau
Mordhau Merch
Check out our merch shop!

The new lockout...

Knight 46 37

Thoughts on the way they tweaked the lockout. I totally disagree with it now and like the way it was before.

Knight 697 1611
  • 1
  • 27 Oct '17
 das

Tested in both 88 ping and 40 ping, I use mouse4 for stab. Attempting to chamber after the enemy has parried/chambered you feels pretty horrible and unnatural on certain matchups, even mirror ones. For instance, in Longsword vs Longsword, it used to be pretty easy to sustain really long stab chamber sequences, but now it doesn't even read the input unless you do it in the last millisecond possible or so. This feels terrible because it's not consistent with how most people would naturally attempt to chamber in the beginning of a fight (i.e. no one's parried or chambered yet). I've noticed a lot of good players like Gauntlet and Hadeus getting hit by really easy ripostes and chambers that they would've had no problem counter-chambering in the past.

The new lockout also lets me do late riposte morphs risk-free. In the past, if someone was playing ultra-aggressive/"gambley" by priming attacks after I parried them, it kept me honest with doing actual ripostes that couldn't be morphed. Now, I parry someone, they're locked out long enough from attacking for me to do a delayed non-riposte attack that can be morphed and then dragged. This catches a lot of people off guard, and I haven't even brought in the feints and morph feints yet.

Duke 554 949
  • 1
  • 27 Oct '17
 Goatie

This patch feels significantly worse than the last. Nobody seems to be able to play consistently and are getting caught by simple chambers and ripostes.

EDIT: Not sure if it was due to my connection at the time or the actual patch, will do more testing.

Knight 253 546
  • 28 Oct '17
 Gauntlet

What has been a point of major frustration for me this patch is that when I see a riposte and try to queue an attack to chamber it, I might still be in the lockout phase and the game won't register my input. This has gotten me killed the most this patch. I'm also wondering how latency might effect the now more significant lockout timer.

In terms of balance I'm seeing two handed weapons soar to the front of the line because they most benefit from the increased lockout.

I really hope the lockout timings will be reverted to last patch values. It keeps the combat pace fast.

Duke 554 949
  • 28 Oct '17
 Goatie

Phew not just me

Knight 196 414

Ok so I'm glad people agree with me on this. This new patch reeks.

Knight 222 187
  • 28 Oct '17
 REKTKWONDO

For sure they gonna "fix it"

Knight 697 1611
  • 1
  • 28 Oct '17
 das

@Gauntlet said:
What has been a point of major frustration for me this patch is that when I see a riposte and try to queue an attack to chamber it, I might still be in the lockout phase and the game won't register my input. This has gotten me killed the most this patch. I'm also wondering how latency might effect the now more significant lockout timer.

In terms of balance I'm seeing two handed weapons soar to the front of the line because they most benefit from the increased lockout.

I really hope the lockout timings will be reverted to last patch values. It keeps the combat pace fast.

It's gotten so bad that I made a macro that spams my mouse click every 0.02s five times after clicking (and yes, this actually helped me able to do simple stab counterchambers once again). Without any sort of buffering option available, I have to resort to either third party configs or press at the last millisecond possible without macros and pray that the new lockout system + latency don't screw me.

I never riposte anymore with slow 2h. Parry -> wait like 0.3 seconds -> attack -> morph -> drag/feint is far superior and even though it's quite slow compared to a riposte or drag, there's nothing your enemy can do but wait for it to come.

Sellsword 615 1381
  • 28 Oct '17
 BobSapp

@Gauntlet said:
What has been a point of major frustration for me this patch is that when I see a riposte and try to queue an attack to chamber it, I might still be in the lockout phase and the game won't register my input. This has gotten me killed the most this patch. I'm also wondering how latency might effect the now more significant lockout timer.

In terms of balance I'm seeing two handed weapons soar to the front of the line because they most benefit from the increased lockout.

I really hope the lockout timings will be reverted to last patch values. It keeps the combat pace fast.

here's my thing: I don't really mind the slower pace, I think it might help the game keep track of reasonable reaction times in the long run (along with improvements to readability, hopefully). I feel like as a consequence of that, this build does have the best handle on chamber fights and back to back exchanges, aside from the awful lockout that screws the entire thing up sometimes

but they wanted this in the first place so they could drop the emphasis on massive aggression through "attack spam". I don't really think this worked. I wouldn't say it's as "spam" as the last build but you're still almost always on the offensive and any reason to let up even the smallest amount of initiative just gets you attacked

so now we're just at a slower pace (which I think can be okay) but with a new lockout that feels pretty terrible (not okay).

do we revert it and start over, or do we try to make the new lockouts better?

Baron 28 28
  • 29 Oct '17
 Cranberry

cuts down on people gambling you immediately after you parry them so I'm honestly not that upset. maybe they could lower the lockout a tiny bit to make counter chambering more constant without disrupting this, or even have an attack queue system if you attack in lockout.

Knight 697 1611
  • 29 Oct '17
 das

I was under the impression that the lockout was added primarily due to 1vX rather than duels.

"Spam" was never a problem in duel. So the guy keeps queuing attacks after getting parried? You just keep riposte'ing and accel'ing, he's letting you stam drain him for free and he won't be chambering if he's attacking without discretion on timing like that. Combined with the current stamina changes, these fools would exhaust themselves faster than ever. Now, the other extreme (the one favoring 'muh meta' that everyone talks about: heavy armor + giant, slow 2hander that 2shots everyone) is in place: the slow weapon guy gets to morph drag off every parry with absolutely no fear of repercussions, and the enemy is just forced to watch. There's no room for tight timings, keeping slower players honest. It's a step back to Chivalry's back-and-forth; a lot of unexplored and untapped potential for interesting footwork and dynamic play seems to have been lost. TBH, most of the people complaining about the "spammers" when it comes to duels seemed to be the same guys who literally don't chamber much of anything. Yeah, your options are gonna feel slow with a giant Zweihander when you only parry. When you utilize chambers -> morph+drag+feint+morphdrag+morphfeint, suddenly you can still dish out a fast enough threat for gamblers while also mixing it with a lot of slower options against those who actually try to defend against you. Or heck, to reiterate, a simple riposte accel will do in forcing them to FTP and lose a chunk of stamina. And I'm saying this as a guy who detests playing against all these Bastard Sword and 1h'ers on the other side of the continent.

That being said, spam was a legit problem in 1vX's because the gambler forces you to keep focusing on him rather than letting you target switch. Because of this, we can't just leave it like it was previously 100% and tell everyone "L2P" because, yes, this game does encompass more than just duels in the end.

If we're going to keep the lockout system, it definitely needs a lot of tuning and possibly weapon-vs-weapon based lockouts (I haven't even thought of what that algorithm would look like). But at any rate, the attack queue/buffering should be added regardless because, although the lockout right now does a great job of showing why it's needed as it nullifies inputs, the attack queue/buffer is also desperately needed for flinches and fighting stuff like facehug morph-into-stab, so it spans to problems besides just the lockout system.

Baron 291 224
  • 29 Oct '17
 Esa1996

Don't like the lockout either. I'm having far more situations not than in previous patches where I try to attack or block and nothing happens as I'm still in lockout.

Duke 2266 4010
  • 30 Oct '17
 Huggles

I think the worst part of the dynamic lockout is the dynamic part. It feels as though they literally just buffed slow heavy two handers despite them being meta. I would much rather prefer a flat 50ms or 100ms added lockout to prevent gamble spam. Part of the tradeoff for having a slower weapon SHOULD BE that smaller weapons are more adept at interrupting and harassing you. You have a harder time getting hits in but you need less hits, while they have an easier time getting hits in but need many more hits.

But now, large heavy hitting two handers can pull the slowest attacks in the world consistently with no consequence.

Also, it nerfs people in a 1vx as if you get parried by a heavier wep you're basically fucked.

56 179
  • 2 Nov '17
 GandaPestile

While the lockout is not perfect right now, I think it is a very necessary way to prevent toothpick weapons from having initiative beyond reasonable. All they need to do is tweak numbers, but already I think the game is in a better state than before.

AJJ is bad

Knight 46 37

Well put das. The back and forth combat is just plain dull and helps make fighting uninteresting. If they can find a good balance I think a lot of us would be satisfied but if they can't find that sweet spot then this will end up just being a chiv clone but with better visuals,chambers and the option to switch grips :-[

Duke 2266 4010
  • 3 Nov '17
 Huggles

@NightmaretoRemember said:
Well put das. The back and forth combat is just plain dull and helps make fighting uninteresting. If they can find a good balance I think a lot of us would be satisfied but if they can't find that sweet spot then this will end up just being a chiv clone but with better visuals,chambers and the option to switch grips :-[

lockout has to be enough to prevent like rapier cheese, but not enough to turn it into boring back and forth combat which it basically is rn. A flat lockout of 50ms-100ms more before the patch is fine. However, 200ms extra lockout is just ridic. And dynamic lockout currently favors weapons most people already considered OP.

3234 4264
  • 1
  • 3 Nov '17
 Havoc

Needs some work with higher latency.

367 341
  • 4 Nov '17
 Peacerer

Lost all the will to play Mord after this update.

Just buff the most three OP 2 handers and elitists are happy. Boring crap! Take away every little bit of diversity possible. I predict the same ridiculous manner will happen with archery. Devs should actually stop listening those few elitist friends around them.

Knight 123 262
  • 4 Nov '17
 Vin¢

Peacerer, you're the biggest elitist on these forums. Next time try making an actual argument instead of bitching about the playerbase.

Knight 941 2569
  • 4 Nov '17
 Pred

@Vin¢ said:
Peacerer, you're the biggest elitist on these forums. Next time try making an actual argument instead of bitching about the playerbase.

Peacerer once went through two full Chiv maps spamming the chat with stories how he's wrecking and "dominating" everyone in Mirage and how "Chiv pros" were just helpless noobs against him.

True story.