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I can't read drags

Knight 1269 3811
  • 1
  • 5 Oct '17
 Frise

yo look at my first comment tho when exactly did I disagree on the animation frames thingy?

I just told you how they could be dealt with and u went all apeshit

I'll beat ur ass without drags any day anyway

stay small

Baron 725 1307
  • 5 Oct '17
 NewYariMeta

Things Were Getting a Little Wild at Caillou's House.

Knight 399 873
  • 2
  • 5 Oct '17
 Alphonse

@Frise said:
yo look at my first comment tho when exactly did I disagree on the animation frames thingy?

Your first comment was just some apologist bullshit about how I can react or adapt to this shit. Your mentions about framerate / jumpy / bad animations in that comment: 0

No, you just argued I could react and anticipate them. I didn't exactly go apeshit. I used insults because it was a very stupid suggestion. ALL YOU HAD TO DO WAS WATCH THE FUCKING VIDEO, instead of playing things from your 120 hz monitor memory. All your suggestions were pretty dumb.

So I called them gambles. With good fucking reason.

Let's see... oh look. I found your mentioning there are technical difficulties. Really appropriate response, when these thread was all about technical issues. Very early too (like 5 hs after you made your 1st comment).

Oh and where is that? Yeah, surrounded by fallacies of shit no one even argued.

You wanted to see apeshit? Well, good job in getting me there. Because I will sure get there when some kid makes illogical arguments one after another, lightly dismisses the concerns in passing ("oh yeah, like, it should be improved or something, but if it doesnt hurt the skill ceiling lol"), and even calls me bad at the game.

You tried to undermine my position by saying that, didn't you? I can't read drags because I'm bad. Well. No. Fuck you.

Stay fucking uncultured, you ignorant swine.

I've read you saying shit like "Oh yeah, you can go all personal on me because you have no arguments for my ideas"

cocky-businessman-wears-crown-smll1.jpg

That's laughable. Who would argue with such a fucking toxic dumbass who doesn't even make sense.

Knight 101 371
  • 1
  • 5 Oct '17
 McMercy

@Alphonse said:
I can't read drags

Madness.png

Knight 1269 3811
  • 1
  • 5 Oct '17
 Frise

I gave you solid advice because you think they are impossible to respond to, while they are not. You don't need to surgically track the weapon to parry a wessex, you can look at the body movement. That is, if you're not a shitty salty player.

Your response to my advice was calling my opinion bullshit and being condescending. I don't know how you manage to be so toxic when there's literally less than 20 people that play in the region.

Blocking me on discord and removing me from steam is really mature by the way

stay small

Mercenary 1897 7067
Knight 123 262
  • 5 Oct '17
 Vin¢

Uh, what's this whole fuss about? 99% of the time if I fail to parry a drag it's my own fault and I could have reasonably adjusted in such as a way to avoid taking the hit. You seem to be arguing that since parrying drags requires inhuman reaction time (which it doesn't, unless I'm misunderstanding you, because you can parry at the start of release and they will have a very small window in which to hit you reliably), that therefore (certain?) drags are overpowered. That's not my experience at all to be quite honest, as I explained before.

If you're telling me that drags cannot consistently be reacted to and yet I can consistently react to them, then what you're saying is false.

I do think that 'wessex' drags should probably be removed if at all possible though. They do look pretty retarded and unrealistic to the point where it breaks immersion. I think normal drags look fine, though, if a bit clunky (although that's a price I'm willing to pay).

On chambers - the big issue with chambers for me is the leg hits. If somebody leg hits you it's way too hard to reliably chamber that, and I think that needs to change. Normal decellerated drags should be the hard counter to chambers but at the moment horizontal or overhead leg hits are probably the most effective and reliable counter IMO. That doesn't mean we need to nerf drags it means we need to buff chambers. That all said, I do think some of the overhead leg drags are a bit difficult to react to and unintuitive too.

I don't think drags need any kind of fundamental reworking, maybe just number tweaks.

Knight 528 3386
  • 1
  • 5 Oct '17
 rob_owner

i wouldnt say the drags are impossible to read, ping is probably a big contribution and hopefully in the future having 80 ping wont be as bad as it is right now when you try to chamber. but as far as like, whether or not you'll be able to read if you specifically train against a specific drag you have trouble with, i dunno. You'll probably be able to read it if you put effort into it, if you're casual then you'll get back what you put in, like if you have other things to do, but its more consistent than chiv

i could play chiv for 4k more hours and all i'd do is develop more coping and gambling strats to deal with this, especially on 80 ping. My biology is the skill cap in chiv because everything can be accelled or delayed harder than any delay, harder than mordhau's alpha delay. only mordhau drags that really seem stinky atm is like halberd or zwei or something, i think sledge and evening star are fine because their windups are so bad. but i have yet to really observe them in a controlled situation yet so i dunno, we'll see.

https://clips.twitch.tv/SpunkyNiceBottleEleGiggle

Knight 399 873
  • 5 Oct '17
 Alphonse

You still don't get it cause you're just bad at rational thinking.

@Frise said:
I gave you solid advice because you think they are impossible to respond to, while they are not. You don't need to surgically track the weapon to parry a wessex

I don't want to track every frame, it disappears from my view and I just want confirmation it's a miss, a drag or whatever.

Your response to my advice was calling my opinion bullshit and being condescending.

Your opinion about drags being the most expressive thing in the game, yeah, that's bullshit. You lessened your argument when you started talking about drags then mentioned other moves.

Your opinion is bullshit because the difference between a successful parry and a hit (without being lucky) requires being able to see where the attack comes from.

To do so, you extrapolate the little motions and your brain makes a path line, like a sharpshooter tracking a running object. If your brain can't track shit because the path is too jumpy, then there's no counter.

I don't know how you manage to be so toxic when there's literally less than 20 people that play in the region.

You've kicked people from your own server. You call aggressive players gamblers and retards. You've called your "friends" autistic and fat and gay.

I provided explanations time after time, all the while reading how you ignored my counter arguments (you know, the ones that prove you are wrong) and you ended up calling me a bad player, resorting to even more petty name calling.

And I'm toxic? Okay. Maybe take a look in the mirror yourself, buddy.

Blocking me on discord and removing me from steam is really mature by the way

I'm mature enough to know when someone is toxic or too immature. When you're past my threshold for such shitty attitudes, I will remove you from my existence on the spot, because I don't really like dealing with toxic cunts who don't listen to reason.

I'm not here to enlighten you. You can continue being a shitty person on your own just fine.

Knight 399 873
  • 1
  • 5 Oct '17
 Alphonse

@Vin¢ said:
Uh, what's this whole fuss about? 99% of the time if I fail to parry a drag it's my own fault and I could have reasonably adjusted in such as a way to avoid taking the hit. You seem to be arguing that since parrying drags requires inhuman reaction time (which it doesn't, unless I'm misunderstanding you, because you can parry at the start of release and they will have a very small window in which to hit you reliably), that therefore (certain?) drags are overpowered.

I'm not talking about all drags, but specific ones, like the spear stab drags and the wessex on the video. In the later case, my eyes had 12 frames of reference to know where the attack was coming from.

Other factors probably come into play, like netcode and server performance, because I can play 1 hour with bots in god mode and get hit maybe once in a minute.

And that was my whole point. Technical shit affecting my ability to read drags. I've read Marox mentioned a "desync" with tracers and animations, and I've read how the changelog introduced new animations. Yet every patch the game plays worse on my end.

Knight 1269 3811
  • 5 Oct '17
 Frise

@Alphonse said:
You've kicked people from your own server. You call aggressive players gamblers and retards. You've called your "friends" autistic and fat and gay.

Niqqa do you not know what a joke is? I've called Sandrui a fat autistic lesbian because we're friends and she calls me a faggot every day.
What, do you have asperger's?

You're repeating yourself saying that you need to millimetrically follow the weapon to parry when that's just not true at all. If you see that your opponent has moved his slash up and it has already gone by you, he's gona wessex. There's literally nothing else he can attempt. You just have to look right or run left. Or both.

There are a lot of bad players in South America. You don't ever see me calling them retards. I have no problem calling you an autistic whining scrub though, 'cause you've already proven you're not respectful.

You want to claim you know about the game? Cool, then try to actually get good at it and understand it instead of ragequiting every time you lose.

did I tell you to stay small yet?

Count 671 1131
  • 5 Oct '17
 Zexis

@rob_owner said:
but as far as like, whether or not you'll be able to read if you specifically train against a specific drag you have trouble with, i dunno.

wessex / z strikes are a good example of this.

question is, should they be in the game at all? I would agree with Vinc and say 'no', drags like that are not where I want the skill cap of Mordhau to reside. it is not a good example of fights looking like fights - we can already see that simple dragging fundamentally rubs some new players the wrong way

I haven't heard anything from the devs specifically on that drag

Knight 399 873
  • 1
  • 5 Oct '17
 Alphonse

@Frise said:
Niqqa do you not know what a joke is? I've called Sandrui a fat autistic lesbian because we're friends and she calls me a faggot every day.

So you're in a toxic relationship, good for you.

You're repeating yourself saying that you need to millimetrically follow the weapon to parry when that's just not true at all.

See, another strawman. I'm not talking about milimetrically following an attack. I'm talking about basic path.

You want to claim you know about the game? Cool, then try to actually get good at it and understand it instead of ragequiting every time you lose.

Fuck off. I don't have to prove shit, you fucking mongoloid. Stop it with your lógica de cancha, you piece of shit.

Knight 528 3386
  • 1
  • 5 Oct '17
 rob_owner

@Zexis said:

@rob_owner said:
but as far as like, whether or not you'll be able to read if you specifically train against a specific drag you have trouble with, i dunno.

wessex / z strikes are a good example of this.

question is, should they be in the game at all? I would agree with Vinc and say 'no', drags like that are not where I want the skill cap of Mordhau to reside. it is not a good example of fights looking like fights - we can already see that simple dragging fundamentally rubs some new players the wrong way

I haven't heard anything from the devs specifically on that drag

i only say i dunno because i havent really tried yet. I assume you'll be able to and i will know if you'll be able to when i actually try, only reason i already assume its possible is because when i launch mordhau i make sure i launch mordhau and not chivalry

Knight 1269 3811
  • 5 Oct '17
 Frise

@Zexis said:
question is, should they be in the game at all?

In terms of the combat, I'd say yes. They add depth. They are very interactive. If you stand still, it's easy to sidedrag you. If you have good footwork, it's almost impossible.

It's also very hard to do, and if you get parried or chambered, you're left in a terrible position and will probably get hit.

It allows you to chamber a strike and turn it into the opposite side. It opens up a lot of possibilities for creative mix-ups.

At a high-level, they're definitely balanced.

The issue is that they look stupid and they can be incredibly frustrating to newer players. But I'm talking about just the combat.

btw @Alphonse stay small

Count 671 1131
  • 5 Oct '17
 Zexis

@Frise said:
The issue is that they look stupid and they can be incredibly frustrating to newer players. But I'm talking about just the combat.

that is a very big issue IMO. that was fine in Chiv but if Mordhau wants to be taken seriously I think "extreme" drags should be off the table.

yes it raises the skill ceiling, yes it adds depth and yes it can be countered with skill and is difficult to pull off, but I don't think it has a place in this game.

Knight 240 388
Knight 240 388
  • 5 Oct '17
 NitroSperg6K

Legit tho ur just bad

301 875
  • 5 Oct '17
 Naleaus

@Zexis said:
yes it raises the skill ceiling, yes it adds depth and yes it can be countered with skill and is difficult to pull off, but I don't think it has a place in this game.

I agree, and also don't think it raises the skill ceiling enough to matter if they're in the game or not. There's a whole lot of ways to get around a defense without having to go to these extremes.

1315 2881
  • 1
  • 6 Oct '17
 Monsteri

We should try to make these kinds of attacks look better. If they can be made to look plausible / somewhat intuitive, they have a definite place in the game. If not, they should go.

e: not talking about z-drags in general