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Clearly we're not getting anywhere with the dragging discussion. I know I've tried So how about this.

Knight 445 1074
  • 26 Sep '17
 Knight Nicholas

I realize there are situations when drags, feints and morphs may seem ridiculous and cheesy. Realize that you can perform these mechanics yourself at will, but more importantly, avoid falling for them altogether. There's no need to shout everyone down and call them bad because they don't understand how to counter a mechanic. A teacher will not test you without first giving you the basic formulas.

If you feel like you're having trouble with feints or drags: just calm down, have patience and focus. If you get tense and panic, you're more likely to be overcome by blocking according to attack patterns, allowing for your opponent to switch it up and become unpredictable, furthermore overwhelming you by feints and drags.

Memorize both the windup time and release speed of your opponent's weapon independently so you can both keep yourself from being feinted by not worrying about the attack until it's past the windup time, and understand when it will hit you if the enemy extends his swing. Keep an eye on the angle of his swing and the direction he's facing. Don't block until a split second before you feel the enemy would hit you.

Additionally ensure that you're blocking your opponent's weapon, not his character; you're trying to use your trusty gear to keep that big chunk of metal and/or wood from hitting you.

On the subject of morphing, the commonly spread assumption that you counter it by trying to chamber is only partially true. If you have a slower weapon, such as the eveningstar, and try to chamber the false attack of a morph from a faster weapon, such as a bastard sword, your opponent will still hit you first unless you morph your attempted chamber into a parry. It is better to treat morphing as a visually altered version of feinting.

If you feel like you're having trouble calculating your opponent's swing timing, check to make sure your video settings are well-suited for your computer to maximize your FPS. You may have such low FPS that you see your enemy in windup one frame, and your dead body on the ground the next. This is not preferable.

If you are still having trouble, remember that practice makes perfect. It always helps to practice against bots in local mode and other players in community dueling servers. Also, never be ashamed to ask another player for help. While there are some hyper-aggressive comp players out there who wish to get to the top and do everything they can to lock the door, there are also plenty of other players who would benefit from some specialized sparring practice and some good-willed comp players who would be happy to pull someone up to their level of experience.

I hope this helps, and feel free to correct me on anything.

96 128
  • 26 Sep '17
 Reapy

I'd just like to make a point that regardless of game balance or preference, it is worth nothing how upsetting the base mechanic of the parry window feels to new players. The issue is that reacting fast leaves you with big feeling windows where you have control of your character and your brain is witnessing the incoming damage yet your character can do mostly nothing.

This is the issue that makes people upset and go complaining to the forums. Oh, I saw the swing coming at me, I reacted to it, and oh look, it didn't hit me yet, now I can maybe duck or run around but I can't do anything and I see this weapon coming at my face, and dead.

I realize that the entire game is centered around defeating that parry window and playing with it would lead to some dangerous set backs. I think it is worth still thinking about making it 'feel' nicer.

I'd wonder how it would feel if there was a 'panic parry' window, if you parry right after a parry you get 'the worlds shittiest parry' that you still take 90% damage, hit stun so you can't retaliate, maybe stamina damage. But you get some sort of animation and sound effect, and you might as well have been hit there, and maybe you even wanted to get hit there, but you can do something.

So basically still suck and you've failed, but you get the illusion of having done something at least.

Count 671 1131
  • 26 Sep '17
 Zexis

@Reapy said:
I'd just like to make a point that regardless of game balance or preference, it is worth nothing how upsetting the base mechanic of the parry window feels to new players. The issue is that reacting fast leaves you with big feeling windows where you have control of your character and your brain is witnessing the incoming damage yet your character can do mostly nothing.

This is the issue that makes people upset and go complaining to the forums. Oh, I saw the swing coming at me, I reacted to it, and oh look, it didn't hit me yet, now I can maybe duck or run around but I can't do anything and I see this weapon coming at my face, and dead.

I realize that the entire game is centered around defeating that parry window and playing with it would lead to some dangerous set backs. I think it is worth still thinking about making it 'feel' nicer.

I'd wonder how it would feel if there was a 'panic parry' window, if you parry right after a parry you get 'the worlds shittiest parry' that you still take 90% damage, hit stun so you can't retaliate, maybe stamina damage. But you get some sort of animation and sound effect, and you might as well have been hit there, and maybe you even wanted to get hit there, but you can do something.

So basically still suck and you've failed, but you get the illusion of having done something at least.

So like a partial parry? Could be interesting to experiment with

No one ever likes feeling like they were tricked. Big drags, feints and morphs: they upset people because they feel they were tricked, and tricks aren't "fair" or at least don't feel good. Now when the trick is a mechanic players don't find intuitive like drags, it's even worse.

This is why I insist the new player experience is crucial. There needs to be a mandatory tutorial that shoves basic concepts like dragging, including accels and decels, into players' faces and doesn't let them leave until they've managed to block some. Rip that band-aid off early and condition players to accept the mechanic.

Knight 2307 4188
  • 3
  • 26 Sep '17
 Runagate

@Reapy said:
[snip]

I don't think adding any more mechanics would do good. And this one wouldn't really change anything, and would probably just make new people more confused. "Yes, I got the parry! Wait what I'm fucking dead?", you know.

Your other points about why this game frustrates easily are on point though.

Knight 337 778
  • 1
  • 27 Sep '17
 AngelEyes

@Reapy said:

No one ever likes feeling like they were tricked. Big drags, feints and morphs: they upset people because they feel they were tricked, and tricks aren't "fair" or at least don't feel good. Now when the trick is a mechanic players don't find intuitive like drags, it's even worse.

This smashes the nail on the head. I enboldened "drags" in your quote.

I get the feeling some individuals think I am against dragging, I'm not. The fundamentals of this game is built entirely around it, simply removing drags or changing the way parry works would completely throw every other mechanic of the game off balance completely.

I do my homework before I buy into games no matter how cool they look and I saw in the Mordhau FAQ it was explicitly said drags are a game mechanic. I like to view everything through the lens of the average gamer. The average gamer is never going to see the FAQ and probably never even visit this website. (Steam customers). The average gamer probably doesn't even have the slightest clue what a "drag" is.

So with that, whatever tutorial is ever put in place, the game must explain the concept of dragging. It wouldn't be a bad idea to use another word for it either. Because like you said when the people rage at mordhau, and they will, they are going to focus fire dragging 100%. That doesn't mean it needs to be removed or even changed. It simply means it needs to stop being treated as a hidden meta.

1090 6149
  • 27 Sep '17
 crushed — Art

After the attack animation updates which will also make drags easier to see/read, we'll be looking into some of the more problematic drags.

Currently eyeing the left over spinning (360, non reverse) that is still possible in an edge case as well as crouch delay drags, we will probably get rid of both as they do not add anything good to the game. They are very easy to deal with as skilled player so all they do right now is allow some cheese against noobs while looking awful/wierd/broken ontop. Ofcourse, crouch accellerations will still be possible.

As for regular drags we think they will be in a good spot once the animation updates are in, as well as the recent max. release time change.

Knight 289 201
  • 27 Sep '17
 TheUprising

Is marox the only programmer atm? Who is working as game designers, everyone?

Knight 2307 4188
  • 27 Sep '17
 Runagate

@TheUprising said:
Is marox the only programmer atm? Who is working as game designers, everyone?

@Dominator

Duke 2266 4010
  • 27 Sep '17
 Huggles

UNLEASH...

THE DOMINATOR

Mercenary 2193 3914
  • 27 Sep '17
 EruTheTeapot

I'm gone for couple days and forum is flooded with repetitive discussion, rip

Knight 685 1855
  • 27 Sep '17
 ÐMontyleGueux

@EruTheTeapot said:
I'm gone for couple days and forum is flooded with repetitive discussion, rip

These kind of posts "I can't deal with (drags/feints/morphs) so we should change them, here is my fix [something completely breaking the game]" are invading the forum right now.

Knight 1269 3811
  • 27 Sep '17
 Frise

@crushed will the release animations be changing? I need to know if the Frisedrag will be affected :^(

1315 2881
  • 27 Sep '17
 Monsteri

What is a frisedrag

Baroness 485 1386
  • 27 Sep '17
 arr0wmanc3r

@Monsteri said:
What is a frisedrag

It's where he drags out this thread for longer than he should by pestering crushed with a pointless question that will be answered by an eventual update.

Baron 2358 3392
  • 27 Sep '17
 Xekratos

You wanna fight drags? Try this new technique.
kick.jpg

Knight 86 94

Rofl, a dev literally just said "yes they are a problem and we are working on it". And you apes are still after that saying I'm wrong. You guys are dense.

Knight 445 1074
  • 27 Sep '17
 Knight Nicholas

@DrEpochノಥ益ಥノ said:
... you apes are still after that saying I'm wrong. You guys are dense.

shrug.jpg

Knight 528 3386
  • 2
  • 27 Sep '17
 rob_owner

a dev said that there exists drags that may be problematic, potentially even after animation fixing, not that the concept of drags themselves were problematic

i used ctrl f to try and find where you got that quote from, but i just couldnt do it
i just searched the whole forum for it and im starting to think it wasnt literally said

Knight 86 94

Which is all I've ever said, the dum looking drags are shit.

Knight 1269 3811
  • 1
  • 27 Sep '17
 Frise

@DrEpochノಥ益ಥノ said:
Which is all I've ever said, the dum looking drags are shit.

You sure? 'aight I'll quote you just so we can see your actual opinions throughout the passage of time

Face it this game is a game of rock, paper, scissor and then there's a random fucking shotgun called a drag that shows up some times

As they are right now, they are broken.

Right now the combat is Bait out a parry animation, and swing after its done. Or drag it out to make your swing last longer than it. and gg

Dragging is JUST as bad as it was in chiv.

you can make a swing last 1.5 seconds by looking away from your opponent to intentionally outlast an animation that you're locked into its pretty game breaking. (This one is just factually wrong lol)

Starting your swing looking away from someone and bringing it around just to outlast the parry animation is pretty broken.

Intentionally missing and moving your swing into someone so you can outlast the parry animation is ridiculous.

You clearly don't like the game and don't listen to reason, so just uninstall it and fuck off ffs.