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Still people say this is intended...

Knight 627 2068
  • 25 Sep '17
 LuxCandidus

"Drags are the core of the game"

It is time to stop using this pitiful excuse. How much a weapon can be accelerated or delayed is fully changeable. Do not treat it as something impossible to alter. Drags are important, but that does not mean they should remain so exaggerated and goofy.

"The game is not meant to be realistic"

Not above all else, but to quote Marox, "we want to encourage fights that look like fights". Having weapons defy gravity and sluggishly move forward as if caught in quicksand makes fights look silly.

Currently weapons can be delayed far too much, and while it is not a problem to fight against, it looks silly and at the same time forces you to look away from your opponent, which makes it both goofy for the player, and unwatchable for the viewer if it is being recorded or streamed. I admit it is fun to do nonetheless, but I would rather my eyes stay on my opponent rather than dart ninety degrees to the left or right.

Acceleration is in a far worse spot. A zweihander can actually strike faster than a dagger. This makes two-handed weapons even better than they already are, and deters you from waiting until the last moment to parry, while rewarding panic parries. It is difficult to feel encouraged to chamber when an attack can be near instantaneous.

Duke 162 274
  • 25 Sep '17
 BEACHES

I'm fine with something being done about accels, but I think more defined startup animations would fix alot of these issues people are having.

The main problem with nerfing drags too heavy is parrying becomes an afterthought and totally braindead. Then the only way to score hits would be chambering into morph or feinting.

Knight 685 1855
  • 25 Sep '17
 ÐMontyleGueux

"Having weapons defy gravity and sluggishly move forward as if caught in quicksand makes fights look silly."

Have you played Mordhau ? These drags you're describing were common in chivalry, but nowhere to be seen in mordhau. Which is a good thing. You can still drag, but they are far more believable than the common chivalry slomo overhead, you can't really slow the weapon mid swing anymore.

Knight 115 67
  • 25 Sep '17
 DailyMilkman

Just remove these white swing effects/tracers/trails or whatever they are called. Looks completly unrealistic and seems like its taken from a fantasy games. I think they make drags harder too as you expect things to go fast as fuck when you see em.

Baron 291 224
  • 25 Sep '17
 Esa1996

@BEACHES said:
I'm fine with something being done about accels, but I think more defined startup animations would fix alot of these issues people are having.

The main problem with nerfing drags too heavy is parrying becomes an afterthought and totally braindead. Then the only way to score hits would be chambering into morph or feinting.

They could make the parry hitbox smaller so while the timing would become easier the aiming would become harder. Being an old WOTR player where timing doesn't really (Other than being as fast as possible) but where aiming and direction is everything, I would greatly prefer a system with emphasis on aiming, not timing.

Knight 941 2569
  • 25 Sep '17
 Pred

@ÐMontyleGueux said:
Have you played Mordhau ? These drags you're describing were common in chivalry, but nowhere to be seen in mordhau. Which is a good thing. You can still drag, but they are far more believable than the common chivalry slomo overhead, you can't really slow the weapon mid swing anymore.

Chiv Zwei cancer staaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaab abuser here. While drags are different in Mordhau than they were in Chiv (no choppy freeze-frame delays in one place), there is certainly something not right with them (yet). Starting your swings from 90 degree angle looks pretty silly from both player and spectator perspective and some weapons are currently way over the top with their hangtime.

Also 1-handed weapons were mostly not draggable in Chiv while they are in Mordhau and with contrast of how fast or how slow they can hit, good old lookdown facehug tornado is on.

Emperor 400 927
  • 25 Sep '17
 Soulcatcher

Yeah the speed of certain weapons is up to whack, five thousand year drag on sledgehammer and insta hit from zwei

It's been stated balance isn't a huge priority right now so don't stress too much I'm sure these concerns will get addressed at a more appropriate time

Emperor 400 927
  • 25 Sep '17
 Soulcatcher

@DailyMilkman said:
Just remove these white swing effects/tracers/trails or whatever they are called. Looks completly unrealistic and seems like its taken from a fantasy games. I think they make drags harder too as you expect things to go fast as fuck when you see em.

+1 tbh, the wind effect/particle whatever

Fucking hate it

Knight 941 2569
  • 25 Sep '17
 Pred

@DailyMilkman said:
Just remove these white swing effects/tracers/trails or whatever they are called. Looks completly unrealistic and seems like its taken from a fantasy games. I think they make drags harder too as you expect things to go fast as fuck when you see em.

Yes, looks and feels like you are hitting people with a wet rag.

Count 671 1131
  • 25 Sep '17
 Zexis

@DrEpochノಥ益ಥノ said:
They are 100% out of control lol
https://clips.twitch.tv/FineMoistWrenMingLee

Man that is noooooothing compared to drags in Chivalry.

Drags are a core component of the combat and while they may receive small tweaks, reading your opponent's accels and decels is a key skill to develop.

Knight 115 67
  • 25 Sep '17
 DailyMilkman

Just imagine how different and easier drags would be without it lol

https://clips.twitch.tv/SoftSplendidToadKreygasm

Duke 162 274
  • 25 Sep '17
 BEACHES

@Pred said:

@ÐMontyleGueux said:
Have you played Mordhau ? These drags you're describing were common in chivalry, but nowhere to be seen in mordhau. Which is a good thing. You can still drag, but they are far more believable than the common chivalry slomo overhead, you can't really slow the weapon mid swing anymore.

Chiv Zwei cancer staaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaab abuser here. While drags are different in Mordhau than they were in Chiv (no choppy freeze-frame delays in one place), there is certainly something not right with them (yet). Starting your swings from 90 degree angle looks pretty silly from both player and spectator perspective and some weapons are currently way over the top with their hangtime.

Also 1-handed weapons were mostly not draggable in Chiv while they are in Mordhau and with contrast of how fast or how slow they can hit, good old lookdown facehug tornado is on.

1H lookdowns with a shield suck. They are buckler-dane axe type of broken. I agree they need tweaking.

Knight 1269 3811
  • 1
  • 25 Sep '17
 Frise

You wanna know the risk in dragging? Footdrags can be jumped, headdrags can be ducked, regular delay drags can easily be avoided with proper footwork. Drags leave you looking away from your opponent so if you get parried, you can't properly react to the riposte.

Now, if you stopped crying and played the fucking game you'd start punishing bad drags, and let the meta evolve.

The game's been out for 2 fucking weeks, you can't make opinions like this yet. Go play the fucking game and practice.

If you can't be patient and strive to get good at the game and understand the combat then you're playing the wrong game.

Knight 627 2068
  • 25 Sep '17
 LuxCandidus

@Frise said:
You wanna know the risk in dragging? Footdrags can be jumped, headdrags can be ducked, regular delay drags can easily be avoided with proper footwork. Drags leave you looking away from your opponent so if you get parried, you can't properly react to the riposte.

Now, if you stopped crying and played the fucking game you'd start punishing bad drags, and let the meta evolve.

The game's been out for 2 fucking weeks, you can't make opinions like this yet. Go play the fucking game and practice.

If you can't be patient and strive to get good at the game and understand the combat then you're playing the wrong game.

This is akin to saying "let us first build a house out of straw and then judge if we should have used bricks instead."

It does not take months of playing to develop the judgement required to see why a zweihander striking faster than a dagger is bad or why attacks defying gravity deteriorates the believability of fights which Triternion has been aiming for. Most complaints do not seem to be related to balancing in the first place; people dislike how artificial dragging looks.

Moreover, the attitude that it is too early for certain kinds of judgements only reduces the amount of feedback the developers receive, and ultimately the point of the alpha is feedback, whether it is regarding bugs, balancing, or whatever else. Discussions are always helpful, even if most players have yet to master the mechanics.

Baron 134 315
  • 25 Sep '17
 2cool2care

@LuxCandidus said:
"Drags are the core of the game"

It is time to stop using this pitiful excuse. How much a weapon can be accelerated or delayed is fully changeable. Do not treat it as something impossible to alter. Drags are important, but that does not mean they should remain so exaggerated and goofy.

"The game is not meant to be realistic"

Not above all else, but to quote Marox, "we want to encourage fights that look like fights". Having weapons defy gravity and sluggishly move forward as if caught in quicksand makes fights look silly.

Currently weapons can be delayed far too much, and while it is not a problem to fight against, it looks silly and at the same time forces you to look away from your opponent, which makes it both goofy for the player, and unwatchable for the viewer if it is being recorded or streamed. I admit it is fun to do nonetheless, but I would rather my eyes stay on my opponent rather than dart ninety degrees to the left or right.

Acceleration is in a far worse spot. A zweihander can actually strike faster than a dagger. This makes two-handed weapons even better than they already are, and deters you from waiting until the last moment to parry, while rewarding panic parries. It is difficult to feel encouraged to chamber when an attack can be near instantaneous.

Oh you do still express yourself after you asked for feints to be removed lol.

Also we are still waiting for this to happen :

LuxCandidus 21 Aug
We are waiting for the alpha so that we can point out the myriad of reasons why third person is flawed inherently and incapable of being balanced. For now you will be met with a dismissive "you don't know that", but the issues will become visible to everyone in the coming months.
I said we would have to wait until alpha until we (those who understand third person will be flawed) are proven right. If you so wish to be proven wrong, wait. This topic has already been discussed exhaustively, so if you want argumentation look through some comment history. There is no sense in treading the same ground over and over.

Your bomptious, text walls "analyses" of the game are just irrelevant.

Knight 627 2068
  • 25 Sep '17
 LuxCandidus

@2cool2care said:
Oh you do still express yourself after you asked for feints to be removed lol.

I literally said the opposite.

@2cool2care said:
Also we are still waiting for this to happen :

LuxCandidus 21 Aug
We are waiting for the alpha so that we can point out the myriad of reasons why third person is flawed inherently and incapable of being balanced. For now you will be met with a dismissive "you don't know that", but the issues will become visible to everyone in the coming months.
I said we would have to wait until alpha until we (those who understand third person will be flawed) are proven right. If you so wish to be proven wrong, wait. This topic has already been discussed exhaustively, so if you want argumentation look through some comment history. There is no sense in treading the same ground over and over.

No need to worry. I have not forgotten. I am waiting until third person no longer allows you to see through walls before assessing its quality.

@2cool2care said:
Your bomptious, text walls "analyses" of the game are just irrelevant.

Bomptious? Thank you for considering my comments analyses, but they are mere feedback like anyone else's comments, not particularly lengthy ones either. What has you so cranky?

Duke 2266 4010
  • 25 Sep '17
 Huggles

Third is fine. Everyone who plays in it is at a disadvantage when it comes to angling, dragging, etc. Also seeing around walls is not an advantage at all, lmao. Any semi-competent player should be anticipating corners. Maybe even starting an attack right before you meet the corner.

Knight 685 1855
  • 25 Sep '17
 ÐMontyleGueux

@Huggles said:
Third is fine. Everyone who plays in it is at a disadvantage when it comes to angling, dragging, etc. Also seeing around walls is not an advantage at all, lmao. Any semi-competent player should be anticipating corners. Maybe even starting an attack right before you meet the corner.

Exactly. It was really op in chivalry and zwei groundsniffers were absolute cancers. But in Mordhau it doesn't seem to be even efficient compared to the first person, which is a good thing for a first person medieval fighting game. I would either remove the 3rd person or turn it into a tool reserved to admire your character, not for fighting.

Duke 2266 4010
  • 25 Sep '17
 Huggles

@ÐMontyleGueux said:

@Huggles said:
Third is fine. Everyone who plays in it is at a disadvantage when it comes to angling, dragging, etc. Also seeing around walls is not an advantage at all, lmao. Any semi-competent player should be anticipating corners. Maybe even starting an attack right before you meet the corner.

Exactly. It was really op in chivalry and zwei groundsniffers were absolute cancers. But in Mordhau it doesn't seem to be even efficient compared to the first person, which is a good thing for a first person medieval fighting game. I would either remove the 3rd person or turn it into a tool reserved to admire your character, not for fighting.

Third is in mainly to appeal to noobies and be able to look at your character. I guarentee you that the best third person player will be dogshit compared to like the top 1000 first person players.

Knight 941 2569
  • 25 Sep '17
 Pred

@ÐMontyleGueux said:

@Huggles said:
Third is fine. Everyone who plays in it is at a disadvantage when it comes to angling, dragging, etc. Also seeing around walls is not an advantage at all, lmao. Any semi-competent player should be anticipating corners. Maybe even starting an attack right before you meet the corner.

Exactly. It was really op in chivalry and zwei groundsniffers were absolute cancers. But in Mordhau it doesn't seem to be even efficient compared to the first person.

But we don't have any 3rd person players from Chiv in the Alpha, right?