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Still people say this is intended...

Knight 86 94

https://clips.twitch.tv/ShortBrainyGoblinPupper

https://clips.twitch.tv/PrettiestGorgeousHerbsPartyTime

Its not improving the game. Its just one dimensional lameness. and abuse of a bad parry system
https://clips.twitch.tv/FineMoistWrenMingLee

When you completely miss a stab but its ok cause drags' got your back
https://clips.twitch.tv/CourageousDrabStarWoofer

Countess 1233 2912
  • 25 Sep '17
 Whisper

A lot easier to read if you're in first person. Larger weapons drags look still too cartoonish for me, I agree with that but they're part of the game.

Knight 86 94

Here they are in 1st. still dont look that great.
https://clips.twitch.tv/HandsomeCloudyQueleaKappaPride

Knight 337 778
  • 1
  • 25 Sep '17
 AngelEyes

I'm neither here nor there really at this point. I understand no one from the chiv community will waver in their opinion about drags. I understand why it's there and I would play Mordhau with or without them. I understand why people like them. I also understand why people hate them. Unfortunately where I feel people go wrong is in saying drags raise the skill ceiling. Drags are the skill ceiling. they are the meta.

I've dueled Mish a bunch of times and I lose 9/10 times. (His undercut accelerate with that axe... lol). I would say my last 15 hours or so of Mordhau has been nothing but working drag manipulation. Because everything else seems secondary to it.

@Whisper said:
I agree with that but they're part of the game.

in the current Alpha build drags are not just a part of the game they are the dominant part of the game. I'm only 45 hours in since alpha started, but I've ultimately scraped any kind of training i've put into say, chambering.
Maybe that has something to do with chambers feeling like when I preform them actually give an upper hand to my opponent by giving them a free riposte I guess. Either way, parralleled with drags, chambers just aren't worth it. Nothing is really.

I can't help but wonder, out of any of the community tutorials done why they haven't included the dominant importance of drags.
I'm sure I'm wrong here, it just almost feels like a shameful taboo that no one wants to talk about, unless of course a player calls them into question.

Knight 86 94
Duke 162 274
  • 1
  • 25 Sep '17
 BEACHES

If I played in 3rd person I would never learn to parry properly either. Dragging is a non-issue. The accels with some weapons are what is wonky with this game.

Seeshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Knight 86 94

@BEACHES said:
If I played in 3rd person I would never learn to parry properly either. Dragging is a non-issue. The accels with some weapons are what is wonky with this game.

Seeshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I could possibly actually agree with this. I would have to see it fixed in context though. And see what that does to some drags.

Knight 1269 3811
  • 2
  • 25 Sep '17
 Frise

Hey if you're too retarded to deal with the game mechanics just equip a shield

They're not 'out of control' if you focus on getting good at the game instead of crying at a combat system you clearly don't understand

Knight 86 94

@Frise said:
Hey if you're too retarded to deal with the game mechanics just equip a shield

They're not 'out of control' if you focus on getting good at the game instead of crying at a combat system you clearly don't understand

When you miss a stab but its ok because missing and still getting a hit off is a "mechanic"
https://clips.twitch.tv/CourageousDrabStarWoofer

Duke 2266 4010
  • 25 Sep '17
 Huggles

Those that you posted do look stupid, the stab one just doesn't I don't see anything wrong with being able to move your stab. But like, those were all super shit drags that were very easily punishable. You just panicked a lot and kept trying to block or chamber. If you see someone doing that stupid bs, just back up, let them miss, and go in for it. When you see someone going for a wide hit, run to their other side and slash accel them. You have a fast weapon. Dont just wait for it to come to you, be agressive.

The crouch drags and slash drags do look dumb, but the overheads, underhands, and stabs don't imho. The issue is primarily in animations imho. But again, it just looks stupid. They aren't OP or broken in any way.

Knight 1269 3811
  • 25 Sep '17
 Frise

When you're a shitlord that buys a game only to cry about the mechanics that make it good

niqqa do you really want a game where you just spam RMB all day having no interaction at all?

Knight 253 546
  • 25 Sep '17
 Gauntlet

I personally do not have an issue with drags as a mechanic. I will agree they are visually silly no matter what. I do wonder if offloading some of the drag potential from release into wind up through a mechanic similar to morphing would resolve some of these weird cases. When you morph it essentially delays your windup, giving you a secondary windup and baiting early parries. In essence this is what a drag does, but morphing doesn't look awful by comparison.

In reference to your videos: These are helpful examples of why drags are visually ugly. Though all of those really over done drags are super punishable - while they look silly it is not an optimal strategy to maneuver your attacks to the end of release every time. It's a great noob mowing tactic.

Sellsword 615 1381
  • 2
  • 25 Sep '17
 BobSapp

@Gauntlet said:
I personally do not have an issue with drags as a mechanic. I will agree they are visually silly no matter what. I do wonder if offloading some of the drag potential from release into wind up through a mechanic similar to morphing would resolve some of these weird cases. When you morph it essentially delays your windup, giving you a secondary windup and baiting early parries. In essence this is what a drag does, but morphing doesn't look awful by comparison.

In reference to your videos: These are helpful examples of why drags are visually ugly. Though all of those really over done drags are super punishable - while they look silly it is not an optimal strategy to maneuver your attacks to the end of release every time. It's a great noob mowing tactic.

I gotta agree, lots of us are C:MW lifers. We're comfortable with mega C:MW style drags but I absolutely understand how they can be a detriment to the visual aesthetic of the game. Specifically to new (and importantly brand new) players and onlookers to raw gameplay

in C:MW we just went "that's the way it is", the game didn't make many large mechanical changes by the time most of us played it. Mordhau isn't here yet though so I think it's worth thinking about some mechanical frontier.

You could focus on morphing to act like a delay as a non-drag. The question now is what you do about drags that doesn't wreck the very principle of the game in dynamic control (given that dynamic control, being probably the most important design in the entire genre, is also how drags even work in the first place)

(edit: clarified, forgot to actually use quote yesterday)

Knight 21 142
  • 1
  • 25 Sep '17
 Ebeli

You're new, so I'm gonna do everything in my power not to grill you over this.

What you're not understanding here is that a big part of the defensive skill in this game is related to conditioning yourself not to parry reflexively as soon as you see an attack starting. I think you're still in that phase where you understand the general idea of parrying, but you can't time the parries properly yet. Playing in third person is also not helping you with this because it's more difficult to actually aim your parry into their weapon precisely.

This is an extremely basic overview of defense, but the next time you're on a server, find some guys that play this way and watch their attacks start up and begin to swing towards you before you block. You probably won't do it right the first time, but if you keep resisting the urge to immediately hit your parry once you're aware of an attack then you'll begin to feel out how much of a window you actually have before attacks hit you.

Knight 685 1855
  • 25 Sep '17
 ÐMontyleGueux

@DrEpochノಥ益ಥノ said:
https://clips.twitch.tv/ShortBrainyGoblinPupper

https://clips.twitch.tv/PrettiestGorgeousHerbsPartyTime

Its not improving the game. Its just one dimensional lameness. and abuse of a bad parry system
https://clips.twitch.tv/FineMoistWrenMingLee

When you completely miss a stab but its ok cause drags' got your back
https://clips.twitch.tv/CourageousDrabStarWoofer

I don't understand your concern about these. It's physically normal that if I swing from left to right, I'm going to hit my target faster if its on the left and slower if its on the right.
To me, mordhau drags are nowhere near the slomo swings we had in chivalry, the sword still go fast enough to deal damage and the actual dragging happen during the windup, where you put more distance between your sword and your opponent while you're raising the sword and preparing your swing.

The only drag that could look odd is the dragged stab, but one could argue that the stabbing movement would have "sliced" in a slow drag instead of actually stabbing.

About the parry, it's the game's way to "simulate" how you can't block with a sword but rather deflect it, thus an emphasis on timing.

There is no need to create hundred of threads about dragging, because it is the core of the game. What makes it unique is how your skill doesn't come from pressing buttons alone, but also your mouse movements, which can be ever improved.

3234 4264
  • 25 Sep '17
 Havoc

I blame chiv vets. Filthy abominable subcreatures infecting holy mordhau with their filthy mechanics, tainting what used to be pure with shit.

Baron 134 315
  • 25 Sep '17
 2cool2care

@BobSapp said:
The question now is what you do about drags that doesn't wreck the very principle of the game in dynamic control (given that dynamic control, being probably the most important design in the entire genre, is also how drags even work in the first place)

Exactly this. This is inherent to the real time strikes, and all newcomers that want a "fix" on drags should try to adapt to the videogame genre they are discovering, look at the animations, footwork and torso movement of their opponent and learn to read them, instead of asking Mordhau to be like minecraft combat system

Mercenary 1897 7067
  • 25 Sep '17
 ThunderDuck

It is intended. Whether you think it looks stupid or not doesn't matter, as the game doesn't pursue realism. Can you name one game that provides the player with this amount of control and still looks realistic?
It's far too soon to call it unbalanced/overpowered or whatever. I will occasionally get absolutely shit on by drags myself, but I've no doubt I'll learn to deal with it over time.

Knight 936 952
  • 25 Sep '17
 afiNity

The first one looked stupid, the rest are fine imo

Duke 162 274
  • 1
  • 25 Sep '17
 BEACHES

@Gauntlet said:
I personally do not have an issue with drags as a mechanic. I will agree they are visually silly no matter what. I do wonder if offloading some of the drag potential from release into wind up through a mechanic similar to morphing would resolve some of these weird cases. When you morph it essentially delays your windup, giving you a secondary windup and baiting early parries. In essence this is what a drag does, but morphing doesn't look awful by comparison.

In reference to your videos: These are helpful examples of why drags are visually ugly. Though all of those really over done drags are super punishable - while they look silly it is not an optimal strategy to maneuver your attacks to the end of release every time. It's a great noob mowing tactic.

Morphing is in a weird place in this game though. It's really not a punishable tactic. If they stab into overhead morph and accel usually my stab in response to chamber him I ALWAYS gets punished by that overhead. I almost wish they would limit morphing to only after a successful chamber. IMO it's just too good right now.