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Dragging and damage.

Knight 1269 3811
  • 25 Sep '17
 Frise

You wanna know the risk in dragging? Footdrags can be jumped, headdrags can be ducked, regular delay drags can easily be avoided with proper footwork. Drags leave you looking away from your opponent so if you get parried, you can't properly react to the riposte.

Now, if you stopped crying and played the fucking game you'd start punishing bad drags, and let the meta evolve.

The game's been out for 2 fucking weeks, you can't make opinions like this yet. Go play the fucking game and practice.

Duke 2266 4010
  • 25 Sep '17
 Huggles

@MrBlackDragon said:

@Sir Zombie said:

@MrBlackDragon said:
Oh dragging is inconsistent? well I have a great fucking way to take care of that, don't drag unless you want a damage penalty. That takes care of your inconsistency. Don't drag, get the same results every time.
People defending broken mechanics in the name of inconsistency is what stop slasher games from getting any better.

Dragging is a good thing. Devs have said that multiple times.
You dont like it? Just parry.

I'm stating my problem with the mechanic. It's not something I like so I'm protesting it.

Dragging is OK but as a function but should come at a cost/risk like any other mechanic. (reduced damage at end of swing). Saying that makes things inconsistent is bs. If you are dragging your weapon you will consistently do reduced damage.

Be honest here. Without the concept of drags, the ability to manipulate your attack during windup and release, how will the combat be at all interesting? Is your idea of the game parry - riposte - parry? How do you envision a highly skilled fight going down.

Knight 147 159
  • 25 Sep '17
 MrBlackDragon

@Huggles said:

@MrBlackDragon said:

@Sir Zombie said:

@MrBlackDragon said:
Oh dragging is inconsistent? well I have a great fucking way to take care of that, don't drag unless you want a damage penalty. That takes care of your inconsistency. Don't drag, get the same results every time.
People defending broken mechanics in the name of inconsistency is what stop slasher games from getting any better.

Dragging is a good thing. Devs have said that multiple times.
You dont like it? Just parry.

I'm stating my problem with the mechanic. It's not something I like so I'm protesting it.

Dragging is OK but as a function but should come at a cost/risk like any other mechanic. (reduced damage at end of swing). Saying that makes things inconsistent is bs. If you are dragging your weapon you will consistently do reduced damage.

Be honest here. Without the concept of drags, the ability to manipulate your attack during windup and release, how will the combat be at all interesting? Is your idea of the game parry - riposte - parry? How do you envision a highly skilled fight going down.

to put it simply, without the drags in their current condition
I'll repeat, penalize drags dont remove them.

Knight 147 159
  • 25 Sep '17
 MrBlackDragon

@Frise said:
You wanna know the risk in dragging? Footdrags can be jumped, headdrags can be ducked, regular delay drags can easily be avoided with proper footwork. Drags leave you looking away from your opponent so if you get parried, you can't properly react to the riposte.

Now, if you stopped crying and played the fucking game you'd start punishing bad drags, and let the meta evolve.

The game's been out for 2 fucking weeks, you can't make opinions like this yet. Go play the fucking game and practice.

I wish there was a way i could block you because none of your comments are productive.

Duke 2266 4010
  • 25 Sep '17
 Huggles

@MrBlackDragon said:

@Huggles said:

@MrBlackDragon said:

@Sir Zombie said:

@MrBlackDragon said:
Oh dragging is inconsistent? well I have a great fucking way to take care of that, don't drag unless you want a damage penalty. That takes care of your inconsistency. Don't drag, get the same results every time.
People defending broken mechanics in the name of inconsistency is what stop slasher games from getting any better.

Dragging is a good thing. Devs have said that multiple times.
You dont like it? Just parry.

I'm stating my problem with the mechanic. It's not something I like so I'm protesting it.

Dragging is OK but as a function but should come at a cost/risk like any other mechanic. (reduced damage at end of swing). Saying that makes things inconsistent is bs. If you are dragging your weapon you will consistently do reduced damage.

Be honest here. Without the concept of drags, the ability to manipulate your attack during windup and release, how will the combat be at all interesting? Is your idea of the game parry - riposte - parry? How do you envision a highly skilled fight going down.

to put it simply, without the drags in their current condition
I'll repeat, penalize drags dont remove them.

That's not helpful at all, lmao. And penalizing drags is again just a bandaid fix that will just aggravate everyone. Sweet spot damage and all that bs just fucks with the flow of the game and makes only obvious attacks worth doing.

Knight 147 159
  • 25 Sep '17
 MrBlackDragon

@Frise said:
You wanna know the risk in dragging? Footdrags can be jumped, headdrags can be ducked, regular delay drags can easily be avoided with proper footwork. Drags leave you looking away from your opponent so if you get parried, you can't properly react to the riposte.

Now, if you stopped crying and played the fucking game you'd start punishing bad drags, and let the meta evolve.

The game's been out for 2 fucking weeks, you can't make opinions like this yet. Go play the fucking game and practice.

But in response, the game has been out for 2 fucking weeks why are you defending drags with a raging hardon?

Knight 147 159
  • 25 Sep '17
 MrBlackDragon

@Huggles said:

@MrBlackDragon said:

@Huggles said:

@MrBlackDragon said:

@Sir Zombie said:

@MrBlackDragon said:
Oh dragging is inconsistent? well I have a great fucking way to take care of that, don't drag unless you want a damage penalty. That takes care of your inconsistency. Don't drag, get the same results every time.
People defending broken mechanics in the name of inconsistency is what stop slasher games from getting any better.

Dragging is a good thing. Devs have said that multiple times.
You dont like it? Just parry.

I'm stating my problem with the mechanic. It's not something I like so I'm protesting it.

Dragging is OK but as a function but should come at a cost/risk like any other mechanic. (reduced damage at end of swing). Saying that makes things inconsistent is bs. If you are dragging your weapon you will consistently do reduced damage.

Be honest here. Without the concept of drags, the ability to manipulate your attack during windup and release, how will the combat be at all interesting? Is your idea of the game parry - riposte - parry? How do you envision a highly skilled fight going down.

to put it simply, without the drags in their current condition
I'll repeat, penalize drags dont remove them.

That's not helpful at all, lmao. And penalizing drags is again just a bandaid fix that will just aggravate everyone. Sweet spot damage and all that bs just fucks with the flow of the game and makes only obvious attacks worth doing.

The flow? If you hit me with a drag you still hit me... how is that interrupting flow? Oh wait you didn't deal max damage so the flow is broken. That makes no sense.

Duke 2266 4010
  • 1
  • 25 Sep '17
 Huggles

@MrBlackDragon said:

@Huggles said:

@MrBlackDragon said:

@Huggles said:

@MrBlackDragon said:

@Sir Zombie said:

@MrBlackDragon said:
Oh dragging is inconsistent? well I have a great fucking way to take care of that, don't drag unless you want a damage penalty. That takes care of your inconsistency. Don't drag, get the same results every time.
People defending broken mechanics in the name of inconsistency is what stop slasher games from getting any better.

Dragging is a good thing. Devs have said that multiple times.
You dont like it? Just parry.

I'm stating my problem with the mechanic. It's not something I like so I'm protesting it.

Dragging is OK but as a function but should come at a cost/risk like any other mechanic. (reduced damage at end of swing). Saying that makes things inconsistent is bs. If you are dragging your weapon you will consistently do reduced damage.

Be honest here. Without the concept of drags, the ability to manipulate your attack during windup and release, how will the combat be at all interesting? Is your idea of the game parry - riposte - parry? How do you envision a highly skilled fight going down.

to put it simply, without the drags in their current condition
I'll repeat, penalize drags dont remove them.

That's not helpful at all, lmao. And penalizing drags is again just a bandaid fix that will just aggravate everyone. Sweet spot damage and all that bs just fucks with the flow of the game and makes only obvious attacks worth doing.

The flow? If you hit me with a drag you still hit me... how is that interrupting flow? Oh wait you didn't deal max damage so the flow is broken. That makes no sense.

It means drags are next to worthless basically. It's not like they're hard to parry now in the slightest. The only way to keep this game from being parrying and riposting and feinting is with drags. Drags are what allow you to fuck up your opponents timing. They are what allow you to go around your opponent's parry. Being punished for using core gameplay mechanics is stupid. In many ways real time swings are like the entire basis of the combat system. And footdrags and stuff already deal reduced damage because they hit your legs.

Your solution doesn't fix the real issue, which is the visuals. It is visually awkward and displeasing for many of these slash drags. But the actual mechanic is balanced and I'd say almost all the good players here can defend against them very consistently. That is what should be worked on. But the fundamental idea of real time swings is the entire basis of combat. Sweet spot systems are garbage and clunky.

Knight 1269 3811
  • 25 Sep '17
 Frise

I'm unproductive for repeatedly giving you reasons why your idea is bad, but making the same thread that has already been made 20 times, and gets the same responses every time, then ignoring every single argument anyone throws at you is productive?

Knight 147 159
  • 25 Sep '17
 MrBlackDragon

@Frise said:
I'm unproductive for repeatedly giving you reasons why your idea is bad, but making the same thread that has already been made 20 times, and gets the same responses every time, then ignoring every single argument anyone throws at you is productive?

  1. I didn't make this thread.
  2. You keep giving the same get good response that isn't addressing the problem I have with dragging.
Duchess 6897 9885
  • 25 Sep '17
 Sir Zombie

EXACTLY. It is your problem, not the game's.

Knight 147 159
  • 25 Sep '17
 MrBlackDragon

@Sir Zombie said:
EXACTLY. It is your problem, not the game's.
This is why a lot of people left chivalry. Instead of fixing the problems you just dealt with it. Same thing is goinf to happen here.

Also as a backer and alpha tester, i feel that i am free to express MY problems. Thank you.

Knight 1269 3811
  • 25 Sep '17
 Frise

Except dragging is not a problem, it's a mechanic that adds a lot to the game and is very simple to deal with it.

Furthermore, the exaggerated dragging that you see in Mordhau is actually ineffective against good players and is just a habit from Chivalry, which means we have to wait for the meta to evolve before formulating any opinions about it.

But this has been said before, multiple times.

Knight 2307 4188
  • 25 Sep '17
 Runagate

@MrBlackDragon said:

@Sir Zombie said:
EXACTLY. It is your problem, not the game's.
This is why a lot of people left chivalry. Instead of fixing the problems you just dealt with it. Same thing is goinf to happen here.

Also as a backer and alpha tester, i feel that i am free to express MY problems. Thank you.

Nothing is stopping you from expressing your problems though so feel free to.

Knight 147 159
  • 25 Sep '17
 MrBlackDragon

Are people just seeing that I posted a comment and blindly responding?

Go ahead and drag. Drag every attack for all I care. I just want repercussions for the extra long drags. Penalize damage based on the length of the swing. If the developers want this game to have a large, successful competitive scene AND retain a decent playerbase the game needs to be accessible. Hitting someone with the end of your swing (or the very beginning for that matter) should not deal max damage. Stabbing to the side of someone's head intentionally, and then dragging the side of your blade into their ear should do nothing at all.

I understand that people want a high skill ceiling but there more mechanics to this game than drags. Which apparently some people believe is the only way to out skill your opponent.
I see a very similar situation with chambering. There are several conversations stating chambers are not worth the risk for the reward. Why aren't we getting better at chambering rather than going back to good ol' dragging? This isn't Chivalry 2. Find a new method to outhink your opponent than old mechanics from an old game.

Knight 147 159
  • 25 Sep '17
 MrBlackDragon

@Runagate said:

@MrBlackDragon said:

@Sir Zombie said:
EXACTLY. It is your problem, not the game's.
This is why a lot of people left chivalry. Instead of fixing the problems you just dealt with it. Same thing is goinf to happen here.

Also as a backer and alpha tester, i feel that i am free to express MY problems. Thank you.

Nothing is stopping you from expressing your problems though so feel free to.

No, nothing is stopping me. But some people just aren't respectful of others opinions and feel the need to unnecessarily slam them at any given opportunity. Changing a decent conversation into a whirling shitstorm of an argument.