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Dissapointed: Is Mordhau Chivalry 2.0?

Knight 936 952
  • 20 Sep '17
 afiNity

The 240 system is also not very intuitive to me. I hope they will add the alternative system based on wasd keys at some point as promised. I keep pressing movement keys when I want to swing the sword in a certain direction. That's 10 years of Jedi Knight in my blood, dunno if I will ever get rid of that habit.

Knight 39 51

The game is supposed to be a "fixed" version of Chivalry. I'm not sure it will be that yet, but it's in a very good place for an Alpha.

Sorry but I can not find this at the kickstarter web where I bought it.

Knight 39 51

@afiNity said:
The 240 system is also not very intuitive to me. I hope they will add the alternative system based on wasd keys at some point as promised. I keep pressing movement keys when I want to swing the sword in a certain direction. That's 10 years of Jedi Knight in my blood, dunno if I will ever get rid of that habit.

Yes, they should add the option :)

Knight 39 51

@UnderPepeGrillosControlΦ said:

The game is supposed to be a "fixed" version of Chivalry. I'm not sure it will be that yet, but it's in a very good place for an Alpha.

Sorry but I can not find this at the kickstarter web where I bought it.

Where did you read this, please?

Duke 162 274
  • 3
  • 20 Sep '17
 BEACHES

@UnderPepeGrillosControlΦ said:

@UnderPepeGrillosControlΦ said:

The game is supposed to be a "fixed" version of Chivalry. I'm not sure it will be that yet, but it's in a very good place for an Alpha.

Sorry but I can not find this at the kickstarter web where I bought it.

Where did you read this, please?

Before this, the developers worked on a chiv mod that fixed alot of the imbalances that Torn Banner refused to fix. The entire comp scene used this mod. Since TB is refusing to make Chiv 2, or fix anything about Chiv, I'm pretty sure that's what spurred on this project.

The majority of people supporting this are former chiv players, who also think they can do what TB did, just better.

Duke 162 274
  • 1
  • 20 Sep '17
 BEACHES

I KEEP HITTING QUOTE INSTEAD OF EDIT GOD DAMNIT

Knight 39 51

@BEACHES said:

@UnderPepeGrillosControlΦ said:

@UnderPepeGrillosControlΦ said:

The game is supposed to be a "fixed" version of Chivalry. I'm not sure it will be that yet, but it's in a very good place for an Alpha.

Sorry but I can not find this at the kickstarter web where I bought it.

Where did you read this, please?

Before this, the developers worked on a chiv mod that fixed alot of the imbalances that Torn Banner refused to fix. The entire comp scene used this mod. Since TB is refusing to make Chiv 2, or fix anything about Chiv, I'm pretty sure that's what spurred on this project.

The majority of people supporting this are former chiv players, who also think they can do what TB did, just better.

So this is what you think about Mordhau. Not me, I did not have any notice about this because I did not know the existence of the mod you are talking about.

So this is not a "fixed version of Chivalry" because of it is not explained at Kickstarter web page. They talked about they have played whole of medieval games. It made me think a mix of ALL medieval games. :)

Baroness 303 417
  • 20 Sep '17
 LιиgLιиg

Not sure if somebody else said this already, but have you tried playing using a shield? It will allow you to have the hold-able directional blocking you want, and may help mitigate the effectiveness of feints and morphs against you. I've seen some players successfully using it in combination with the warhammer or bastard sword so far.

Baron 135 244
  • 20 Sep '17
 EvilSuD

@BEACHES said:
Introduce any more M&B mechanics and I'll probably drop the game. I don't think I disliked a combat system more than M&Bs. I'm already not crazy about the 240 system at all. I don't give a flying fuck about realism I just want a fun game.

Whats wrong with the 240 system?

Knight 39 51

@LιиgLιиg said:
Not sure if somebody else said this already, but have you tried playing using a shield? It will allow you to have the hold-able directional blocking you want, and may help mitigate the effectiveness of feints and morphs against you. I've seen some players successfully using it in combination with the warhammer or bastard sword so far.

I know, but it is easy to beat a shield :)

Duke 162 274
  • 20 Sep '17
 BEACHES

@EvilSuD said:

@BEACHES said:
Introduce any more M&B mechanics and I'll probably drop the game. I don't think I disliked a combat system more than M&Bs. I'm already not crazy about the 240 system at all. I don't give a flying fuck about realism I just want a fun game.

Whats wrong with the 240 system?

I don't find the gameplay fun at all, which is why I never played M&B or really any other melee game other than Chiv.

It's functional I just don't like it.

Knight 212 781
  • 20 Sep '17
 Anal Error

100% agree with this post !
If they add back the double KO the game will be on the right path !
Trade hits please for double KO'S !

48 75
  • 1
  • 20 Sep '17
 cheesehead

response/opinion piece/rant
Although I agree there are a lot of aspects similar to Chivalry, it is at the same time very difficult to make a similar title in the melee genre with the same first-person melee theme without them looking similar. I honestly find the combat to feel like a good breaking point between Chiv and Mount and Blade, though I would like to see them split further from chiv and try to make the combat more unique to their own game without overloading it with mechanics. Wooden shields breaking and scoring a hit with it is something I would like to see, a much better punishment and more defeating than it just flipping out of the user's hand, especially when you hit them with an evening-star.

I think one of the main reasons playing Mordhau can feel like a Chivalry 2.0 is because nearly all the players as it stands are Chiv veterans who have developed playstyles that they translated into the game. I play very similar to how I used to, and the 240 direction system is something that I actually really enjoy despite sometimes it not wanting to listen to me and sending my swing in a random direction. I manage now to beat down many of the people that would destroy me in Chiv with the new system, which makes me a little biased toward this new system, but I think once people have a gvrasp on it and becomes second nature that it will be very useful. Chivalry always felt repetitive and predictable, while in this game I find myself having to hone in much more and I have a lot more "clutch" moments.

I do not think clashes can be artificially increased without increasing the hitbox on weapons as well as increasing the room for failure. My problem with this is that I don't think the lack of clashes has to do with the mechanics as they are now, but rather a lack of experience from the players. We've all only had a week playing and I find that I experience more clashes when I'm fighting people of my equivalent skill or I can sometimes force them for a hit. Forcing clashes can be also practiced, although difficult it is something that can be pulled off. MOST OF ALL, I think if you try to increase clashes more and more the uniquity and beauty of them will be torn away and they will become another boring old combat mechanic that happens every fight, and could lead to even more spammier playstyles than just feinters.

Rage quitting the game because of morphs and feints seems a little unnecessary, there still is a lot of combat mechanics to get around morphs and feints and they are readable. I agree that they need some balancing, like draining stam when you morph but saying that the only thing decent players and up do is morph/feint spam is just noobish and untrue. I find that the best players I've fought are the best at pulling of chambers and reading enemy feints, while feinting and morphs are there, they are readable and I am beginning to be able to read a good portion of those thrown at me the more I practice. A good way to tell is if they are stabbing with a weapon that doesn't make sense or they start from too far away, since I have an offensive playstyle I manage to gamble or read my way through morphs.

I agree with you that the game needs more uniquity, so if you want to see it changed continue making opinion pieces like this and test the game. Taking a step back when I'm getting destroyed and realizing its still in testing takes away from some of the annoyances that come with these games. I think it'd be foolish to quit now if you want to see the game change in a direction that you would enjoy, or all the Chiv vets will just get their way and all we will end up is a Chiv 2.0 and will have similar results as its spiritual predecessor.
@underpepe

Knight 697 1611
  • 20 Sep '17
 das

@Pred said:

@ÐMontyleGueux said:
The lack of recovery phase after being blocked and the chambers encourages you to be way more aggressive towards your opponent. Trust me, feinting will get you killed a lot against more experienced players.

Feinting, as "we are both not attacking" are not very useful, as everyone spams like crazy at any opening and you get flinched, so this part is true.

But the initial phase of the duel is pretty much a competition who can get to combo-feinting first.

  1. You land a hit, press forward to facehug

  2. Combo to an unreadable lightspeed accel

  3. Feint

  4. Profit

This would be a lot less of a problem if the chambering angles for overhead and underswing were less silly. It's not that combo feints are unbeatable if you are actually patient, it's that the input to counterplay them (chamber) right now is very wonky against attacks that aren't stabs or horizontal.

48 75
  • 20 Sep '17
 cheesehead

@ANALGRINDER said:
100% agree with this post !
If they add back the double KO the game will be on the right path !
Trade hits please for double KO'S !

Mordhau will not have hit trades. This would ultimately change the entire aspect of the game, and I think more people would be annoyed by being double KO'd rather than scoring the kill in the last clutch moment. If I was in a duel, fighting someone in a long hard duel, and it came down to where we were both on 10 health and no stam, the moment when you score the last hit feels so rewarding. If people just spammed to get that last hit off so they could kill you as you killed them I think that I would just slam my desk and walk away from the screen. I know you really want this for some reason, but this is something the game will just not be incorporating as it will just send it in a Chiv direction. The cons of this outweight the pros.

1315 2881
  • 20 Sep '17
 Monsteri

@das said:

@Pred said:

@ÐMontyleGueux said:
The lack of recovery phase after being blocked and the chambers encourages you to be way more aggressive towards your opponent. Trust me, feinting will get you killed a lot against more experienced players.

Feinting, as "we are both not attacking" are not very useful, as everyone spams like crazy at any opening and you get flinched, so this part is true.

But the initial phase of the duel is pretty much a competition who can get to combo-feinting first.

  1. You land a hit, press forward to facehug

  2. Combo to an unreadable lightspeed accel

  3. Feint

  4. Profit

This would be a lot less of a problem if the chambering angles for overhead and underswing were less silly. It's not that combo feints are unbeatable if you are actually patient, it's that the input to counterplay them (chamber) right now is very wonky against attacks that aren't stabs or horizontal.

Indeed, I posted a video on how to chamber overheads aimed at your hips or lower, and the way you have to do it is indeed very unintuitive and weird:

The developers have told me that they're working on a solution, though.

111 131
  • 1
  • 20 Sep '17
 Bang

@Monsteri said:

@das said:

@Pred said:

@ÐMontyleGueux said:
The lack of recovery phase after being blocked and the chambers encourages you to be way more aggressive towards your opponent. Trust me, feinting will get you killed a lot against more experienced players.

Feinting, as "we are both not attacking" are not very useful, as everyone spams like crazy at any opening and you get flinched, so this part is true.

But the initial phase of the duel is pretty much a competition who can get to combo-feinting first.

  1. You land a hit, press forward to facehug

  2. Combo to an unreadable lightspeed accel

  3. Feint

  4. Profit

This would be a lot less of a problem if the chambering angles for overhead and underswing were less silly. It's not that combo feints are unbeatable if you are actually patient, it's that the input to counterplay them (chamber) right now is very wonky against attacks that aren't stabs or horizontal.

Indeed, I posted a video on how to chamber overheads aimed at your hips or lower, and the way you have to do it is indeed very unintuitive and weird:

The developers have told me that they're working on a solution, though.

What if he just slams it down instead of telegraphing it?

Knight 39 51

@cheesehead said:
response/opinion piece/rant
Although I agree there are a lot of aspects similar to Chivalry, it is at the same time very difficult to make a similar title in the melee genre with the same first-person melee theme without them looking similar. I honestly find the combat to feel like a good breaking point ...

Thank you. This is the kind of discussion I was waitting.
I agree with you on almost everything, and you have encouraged me to continue testing it.

See you on the battlefield, soldier :)

Knight 212 781
  • 20 Sep '17
 Anal Error

@cheesehead said:

@ANALGRINDER said:
100% agree with this post !
If they add back the double KO the game will be on the right path !
Trade hits please for double KO'S !

Mordhau will not have hit trades. This would ultimately change the entire aspect of the game, and I think more people would be annoyed by being double KO'd rather than scoring the kill in the last clutch moment. If I was in a duel, fighting someone in a long hard duel, and it came down to where we were both on 10 health and no stam, the moment when you score the last hit feels so rewarding. If people just spammed to get that last hit off so they could kill you as you killed them I think that I would just slam my desk and walk away from the screen. I know you really want this for some reason, but this is something the game will just not be incorporating as it will just send it in a Chiv direction. The cons of this outweight the pros.

Same boring shitt when after release you will see only duel servers where only pro will be anbd will kick you fast ... few peoples and the game will die fast..
The game must be about fun gameplay... is just a pc game and with double KO is more realistic and fun.
And this double KO is rare and happening only when both players hit same time and weapons have not collision.

Knight 147 159
  • 20 Sep '17
 MrBlackDragon

@Runagate said:
Mordhau now is also an unfinished alpha you mong. It also has none of the bullshit exploits of Chivalry.

Also chambering is a thing.

If people are practicing and learning the game now, forming metas and most effective ways to fight the devs are going to build the game around that. It will become THE WAY THE GAME IS PLAYED, there will be no other options since popular opinion will win in the end. OP is right, as it is mordhau is a feint,morph,drag simulator AKA Chiv(minus morph).
I look forward to more game updates and features and pray we haven't seen the bulk of the game.