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More Weapon Variety/Unique Feel?

96 128
  • 18 Sep '17
 Reapy

Just a question and some thoughts on how different the weapon's feel from one another. I haven't played enough and I'm still really bad, but do have the thought that a lot of the weapons feel very similar, despite having some different attack animations, swing speeds, lengths etc. Meaning, your timing and spacing feels different with other weapons, but at the end of the day you are following the same rules of feint, drag, chamber etc in the fight. Playing the core loop.

Are the people that have spent more time in here feeling a big difference when going up against different weapons, like, oh this guy is using a spear instead of halberd so I'm going to have to approach this fight much more differently? At a higher level do those differences feel very strong, or just a subtle nod to the length/speed and on with the normal program?

I'm thinking along the lines of, lets say the warhammer suddenly can't thrust, but does 2x stamina damage when it hits and is a bit slower. When you are up against a weapon like this the idea would be you'd suddenly be thinking a lot more about stamina damage and exhausting your opponent while giving up other options of attack. The mentality of both players would be dramatically different because of it and I think that would lend a lot to the game.

Do you think mordhau could use some more extreme variety of weapon properties to flavor it? I think right this second it is probably not the time to get the balance out of wack as we are trying to home in on the 'core' style, but I think it is worth thinking about. Along those lines it is a good idea to think hard about how balance changes have moved and think about some of the changed mechanics could have a place in the future attached to a specific weapon that might get gimped in other areas

I know we have archers and horses coming so might be firing off to early on this, but I thought it was worth thinking about.

18 59
  • 1
  • 18 Sep '17
 jest

Completely agree. Currently it costs 7 stam to parry most hits, 10 to block with a shield.

I'd love to see the slower/heavier weapons and attacks do heavier stamina damage. The slower/larger weapons have more restrictive turn caps, so say an overhead from a Sledgehammer/Zwei, does 14 vs a parry, 20 to block. Additionally increase the stamina damage done based on the point of impact in the weapon's swing - hard to aim vertical attack from a slow/heavy weapon, landing perfectly mid-swing = massive stam damage. This means players would want to evade certain slow/harder hits, rather than absorb most of them with blocks/parries.

Like competitive fighting games, it's much more interesting when you have a variety of fighting styles - some attacks that you remain mindful of, and just want to evade/avoid completely, while punishing the recovery (ie. fighting grapplers).

Knight 27 40
  • 18 Sep '17
 Yurik

I definitely like this idea, I'm all for weapon types feeling unique.

Knight 697 1611
  • 18 Sep '17
 das

"Weapon can't thrust" would be too extreme when you consider chamber and morph. It already pseudo-exists in weapons like battle axe where the thrust is pathetic, or the spear where the strike is pathetic, and the main purpose of these attacks' existence besides chambering is to gain tempo by flinching.

Matchups do vary a bit as you enter the more extreme ends of the weapons, just like in Chivalry:

Faster weapon vs slower, the faster guy really wants to press the offense. Any moment the slower weapon doesn't riposte immediately is your cue to attack again to pressure and possibly land a flinch. Quarterstaff and 1h'ers revolve their playstyle around this versus a lot of the popular, slower weapons, but even Longsword vs Zwei could show these principles.

Fast vs fast is pretty fun, it's a lot harder to be technically clean as, say, a 2h sword vs 2h sword fight where it's a lot more feasible and necessary to play with chambers, morphs, and such. Fast weapon vs fast weapon feels a lot like Man-at-Arms duels where you're constantly spacing and trying to run over your enemy.

Eveningstar and Spear are two good examples of weapons that feel quite unlike any other matchup.

But I'm guessing you're calling for more extreme differences. I do have some ideas concerning this:

  • Certain weapons can morph a stab into a stab to delay (e.g. only spears, epees, and rapiers if the latter make it into the game).
  • Perk that allows you to use shield + flail, shield can't be disarmed but blocking with 0 stamina means you're kicked stunned ala Chivalry.
18 37
  • 19 Sep '17
 Wild_Bread_Tamer

If I recall correctly, I recall reading a post by Crush regarding weapon properties, tossed out an idea like a billhook doing full damage to legs as on the torso, for example. Don't quote me on it. Speaking of billhooks, are they in the alpha? I don't believe I've seen any gameplay footage with a billhook in it.

Knight 27 40
  • 19 Sep '17
 Yurik

@Wild_Bread_Tamer said:
If I recall correctly, I recall reading a post by Crush regarding weapon properties, tossed out an idea like a billhook doing full damage to legs as on the torso, for example. Don't quote me on it. Speaking of billhooks, are they in the alpha? I don't believe I've seen any gameplay footage with a billhook in it.

They are in alpha

1090 6149
  • 1
  • 19 Sep '17
 crushed — Art

More differences between the weapons are planned. Currently considering some mechanical changes (such as left & right stab for the spear having different damage and timing stats), passive weapon perks (for example Axes having some form of bonus against shields) and a full stamina system with different stamina damage for weapons etc.

Knight 697 1611
  • 19 Sep '17
 das

@crushed said:
such as left & right stab for the spear having different damage and timing stats

Yoshhhhh. Amazing idea.

Axe vs shield souds neat too, an extra incentive to carry one even if only as a sidearm.

Knight 5410 7408
  • 19 Sep '17
 Humble Staff

@crushed said:
More differences between the weapons are planned. Currently considering some mechanical changes (such as left & right stab for the spear having different damage and timing stats), passive weapon perks (for example Axes having some form of bonus against shields) and a full stamina system with different stamina damage for weapons etc.

Oh mah gaaaaaaaaaaaawd.
Looking forward to this.

Knight 152 100
  • 20 Sep '17
 Lilboots

@jest said:
Completely agree. Currently it costs 7 stam to parry most hits, 10 to block with a shield.

I'd love to see the slower/heavier weapons and attacks do heavier stamina damage. The slower/larger weapons have more restrictive turn caps, so say an overhead from a Sledgehammer/Zwei, does 14 vs a parry, 20 to block. Additionally increase the stamina damage done based on the point of impact in the weapon's swing - hard to aim vertical attack from a slow/heavy weapon, landing perfectly mid-swing = massive stam damage. This means players would want to evade certain slow/harder hits, rather than absorb most of them with blocks/parries.

Like competitive fighting games, it's much more interesting when you have a variety of fighting styles - some attacks that you remain mindful of, and just want to evade/avoid completely, while punishing the recovery (ie. fighting grapplers).

Agree, though in my opinion you need to adjust the stamina usage for heavier weapons as well. or you have a imbalance of stamina and people would abuse this.

Axe for shields would be awesome, ive been dreaming of a counter for shields..