There's quite a few duplicates there Havoc, but I definitely agree with chambering not feeling rewarding enough. Right now for pulling it off you just get a stamina free block.

I personally use the alt grip for the greatsword, but it's because I'm not a big fan of super slow drags, but you're right I haven't seen many others doing it.

@Yurik said:
There's quite a few duplicates there Havoc, but I definitely agree with chambering not feeling rewarding enough. Right now for pulling it off you just get a stamina free block.

I personally use the alt grip for the greatsword, but it's because I'm not a big fan of super slow drags, but you're right I haven't seen many others doing it.

I didn't want to ignore input by anyone, even if it was a duplicate, that said there's a lot, A LOT of removed expletives.

I think a majority of the issues stem from an unrefined mechanics such as acceleration, knockback, swing speed, and the windup system that needs tweaks both in terms of speed, damage, and especially animations, along with some critical thinking about risk vs reward, and how skill plays into that.

The advantage Slasher had was that its core mechanics were a lot more solid and understood by the developers then by the time mordhau was even announced and support for slasher was dropped.

Hopefully with our input we can polish mordhau into something a lot more solid.

@Havoc said:

@marox said:
Please give more details, no need to pull any punches.

Compiled (edited/paraphrased) list of gripes or statements/suggestions from a few anonymous users. (INCOMPLETE LIST)

I'll try to answer some of these questions and delete the repeat ones as well as those I agree with.

• Mordhau needs either visual GUI or 1st person animation feedback in so players know specifically what attack angle they'll activate using a swing.

They were working on it but they just didn't make it in time.

• You get knocked back a bit too much when you're hit

I myself haven't really found the knockback to be bad.

• Stabs are awkward using mouse directional stabs, as you'll often get the incorrect stab attack angle out, being forced to rebind each stab attack angle to mitigate this issue is not a solution.

Then maybe actually use your mouse to stab so you don't get the wrong angle.

• Parrying is very easy at the moment, and feels more akin to chiv as an all-compassing hitbox, rather than something that needs to be aimed at an opponent's weapon. It's also a bit too easy to fall back to a parry if you've made a mistake.

Before you say if a thing needs to be nerfed you have to ask yourself: "Does it really NEED to be nerfed?"

• The wind-up mechanic for weapons is awkward as the attacks themselves are very quick. It's gotten to the point where a majority of players aren't reacting to visual cues, but rather the auditory grunt to parry.

The grunt is also a thing you can use to parry. This is intended. So what?

• Under Swings being able hit behind an opponent's legs

Do you have any footage of this?

• Thrown mace does more damage than the other thrown weapons

So?

• Wind-up mechanics actually make drags a lot more effective for slower weapons, coupled with the faster swings

Is this an issue?

• Combat getting bogged-down/delayed, resulting in players either having to gamble or feint to progress combat

Feinting is a mechanic. You should use it.

• Often after an opponent's parry, an opponent's weapon will visually look completely still then they'll swing after a very short wind-up. (Clarification: Riposte overheads whilst looking down connect almost instantly especially when the weapon-hitbox activates inside the player or right after the short wind-up)

It is a shame that there is a part of the windup where it can be parried while not dealing damage.

• Certain two handed weapons, such as the zweihander, can cover close to 360° of a player using an overhead rainbow

You can turn 180 degrees. If you couldn't, the combat would be sluggish probably and target switching would be impossible.

• Difficult to tell what attacks your opponents are doing up close due

• Feinting~parry and morph~parry meta

What

• Chambers greatly unrewarding

They don't cost stamina and give a fast hit. Do you want it to be faster? A fucking free hit?

• Still able to do very effective waterfalls

Drags are a part of the game afaik

• Overheads often not connecting with players despite the 1st person model clipping through an opponent.

Yeah they are working on that.

• No incentive to not spam crouches

It makes you predictable as fuck.

• No looping animation.

I actually don't know what this means. Could you please explain.

• Spamming attacks seems to be very effective combined with attack acceleration.

Fucking learn to parry.

• Kicks being ineffective tools to prevent facehuggers, especially due to attack acceleration

Have you tries morphing or riposting kicks? Bet you haven't.

• Overhands and underhands are difficult to read due to the wind-up animations, and it's gotten to the point where a lot of players are only just chaining those attack types whilst dragging or fainting/morphing using four keybinds. It looks silly, it plays silly, but it's very effective and awful to fight against.

There isn't a lot more than that tb

• Mordhau will often crash if you play on fullscreen and ALT TAB

Then use borderless

• CAN'T SKIP THE * SPLASH SCREENS

They use the screens to cover up loading. That is how most games work.

• No bloody footprints when you walk through a blood puddle /refund

Oh yeah game is unplayable

• WTF, how come the kickstarter stuff was available in an earlier showcased build of Mordhau but not now?

Because they need to find a way to distribute them.

• No point in clash fighting as the faster weapon will win

Yeah? Stop clashing and parry their attack.

• Lack of Dev interaction besides crushed occasionally hopping into discord

Not really tho

• Feinting/Morphing too effective

Git gud

• Being able to spam jump/crouch attack spamming without issue

Is there supposed to be an issue?

• Being able to flourish into a stab or a stab morph

Is this bad?

• Players fighting like jackhammers on crack spasming out to try to confuse you, with morphing and feints it's way too good

Maybe don't get confused?

Havoc most of the people you've talked to just seem to not realize that they are bad at the game and can improve. It hasn't even been out for a week and to think you are the best already is stupid imho.

Havoc, literally everything you wrote can be shut down with "It's an alpha," and "Git gud."

That's not even me saying git gud to be sarcastic or insulting, it's just the truth. Even the best Chivalry players aren't very great at the game yet, it has been out for less than a week ffs. The only two things you said I can somewhat agree with are parries maybe being too easy and some of the windup animations looking really wonky and being hard to read. The second one is absolutely true and I'm sure the devs are gonna work on the animations and improve them.

The rest of your post consists of "Wah this is too hard I've played the game for 20 hours and I can't deal with it pls nerf."

Are you sure you're not just shit?

WTF, how come the kickstarter stuff was available in an earlier showcased build of Mordhau but not now?

Because they need to find a way to distribute them.

That's not much of an excuse. If they were able to provide alpha keys to backers depending on if they had Knight or above titles, I'd imagine they easily should've been able to do something to automatically distribute codes for the exclusive items associated with the titles the user had.

if a dev could explain why I'm wrong though, that'd be nice to know why we don't have them.

@CaptainGaymer said:

WTF, how come the kickstarter stuff was available in an earlier showcased build of Mordhau but not now?

Because they need to find a way to distribute them.

That's not much of an excuse. If they were able to provide alpha keys to backers depending on if they had Knight or above titles, I'd imagine they easily should've been able to do something to automatically distribute codes for the exclusive items associated with the titles the user had.

if a dev could explain why I'm wrong though, that'd be nice to know why we don't have them.

When you pay $1,000 to get some electronic shinies, but don't.

Least I'm not the God Emperor

I'm sure you can show off how you spent 1000$ on release, it's like if you complained about how not everything they have developed for this game is currently in the alpha, because why would it? It's alpha.

Lol, you do know this is an alpha? That means the game isn't done. The gui isn't finished, they haven't started to work on balance yet. That covers at least half of your complaints. Most of the other half, as others have said, can be covered by telling you to get good.

And really? "lack of dev interaction"? They reply to every post that isn't a shit post, and marox even replied to your topic asking for specifics about what you didn't like. What developers can you get a response from more easily than triternion? Because as far as dev interaction goes, they're the best of any game I've played.

Sounds like you're just whining.

@Ƭheodore said:
Lol, you do know this is an alpha? That means the game isn't done. The gui isn't finished, they haven't started to work on balance yet. That covers at least half of your complaints. Most of the other have, as others have said, can be covered by telling you to get good.

I think part of what the complaints are referring to is that Slasher (which was comparable to a very early pre-alpha I guess?) had some of these features, and now they're missing in a build that should be further along in development.

I think the issue is that they don't currently have a way to only give the rewards to the appropriate backers. Looking at Chivalry, their dlc armor and other items are handled by a server that your client has to contact. I'm assuming that for the alpha, they don't have that functionality in place and would rather not give all the rewards to everyone. It's not a big deal, as long as you get it by release.

@Havoc said:
Many animations, especially animation blends with fast weapons confuse players as the wind-ups look very similar to each other. Players have also mentioned that a stabs are being camouflaged as swings, as the wind-ups for certain weapons look similar.

• Stabs coming from the side often look like weapon swings
• Difficult to tell what attacks your opponents are doing up close due
• Overhand and underhand attacks being difficult to interpret up close due to the wind-up animations, especially when someone is turned sideways at you or morphs into it.

I can relate to these, but I do believe its because I'm still not used to the animations. I took a long time to get used to chiv's animations, so I imagine here I might take even longer due how many different attacks there is. I think its boils down to git gud

• Still able to do very effective waterfalls

What even is a waterfall, is it backswing? Why the hell you guys use these terms instead of describing precisely what you mean, they are confusing as fuck and can mean one or several things, like "ballerina" and "rainbow".

• No point in clash fighting as the faster weapon will win

Well then use it to targetswitch or parry the guy. I haven't had any problem with clashing, in fact I think its pretty damn good. I have hit people after clashing them with a halberd, and you can't get much slower then that. Thing is, not aways people are expecting a clash, so your attack might come of as a surprise.

A lot of Havoc's feedback can be chucked to this being a barebones build. It's a brand new alpha that's been out for less than a week. You're not going to have everything featured in the full game right off the bat; but I'm sure some of that feedback will be very useful to the devs though.

I'd say about 80% of it either isn't all that objectively true or relevant, or can be solved by refining mechanics as you said. I will agree to some though:

• Parrying too wide/easy. It's been discussed and mostly agreed on. Though I think being able to do a recovery parry at the very last second is a good thing, it rewards players who are able to act quickly and keep their composure.
• Attacks being hard to read. I can only partially agree, as I suspect my ping messes that up quite a bit for me.
• Everything regarding stamina cost and feinting/morphing. Yep, should cost a bit more stamina.

Can't really talk about the rest. A lot (and I really mean a lot) of all that can be summarized as: you haven't mastered the game yet. Let's be honest here, were you doing ROH, godlike footwork and consistently reading feints 5 days into Chiv? I understand that some Chiv vets will feel like they should be able to achieve the same level of play in Mordhau very quickly, but I just don't think it's really the case.

It's a new, albeit similar game. Take the time to learn it and then, if you still feel that way, come back and build upon your previous points.

Until they implement a better 240 system, my hype for this game is going down.
I didnt play Slasher, which as I can see, seems like a pre-pre Alpha of Mordhau, with a similar angle system like in here.

The thing is, doesn't matter if you have X experience on Chiv or Slasher - the 240 angle command imput in this game is UNRELIABLE by itself in this current state. Then, plus all the retarded shenanigans player are abusing and weapons unbalacing, make every login into Mordhau a complete stress.
There is no way of "git gud" in this moment, since practing is futile when the system reads your imputs the wrong way.

Now, one exemple that most eveyone here already experienced:
To win:

• just go full heavy
• eveningstar/zwei/polecancer,
• look down (to force the system lock),
• facehug and
• spam lower swings.
  If it fails, put some LMBs here and there.

There is no "Duel" at the moment. People are playing for trolls, not testing.
It's frustrating as hell.

PS: You guys who claim to be "god" like - if you want to be usefull for this community, do a in-depth tutorial vid on how to imput commands rightly with this shit 240 angle system. (Since the game didnt provided it itself).

Sorry for the rant, Thank you very much.

@MeTaLAnGeR said:
The thing is, doesn't matter if you have X experience on Chiv or Slasher - the 240 angle command imput in this game is UNRELIABLE by itself in this current state.

I will agree with this heavily. A responsive 240 would make chambers a ton easier, which would make the "impossible" stuff to defend against like morph chambers and such actually a lot more balanced in a way.

There is no way of "git gud" in this moment, since practing is futile when the system reads your imputs the wrong way.

Chiv pre-set angles + mouse X-direction has been working well for me.

Now, one exemple that most eveyone here already experienced:
To win:

• just go full heavy
• eveningstar/zwei/polecancer,
• look down (to force the system lock),
• facehug and
• spam lower swings.
  If it fails, put some LMBs here and there.

Those weapons are undoubtedly good in team fights, which is just the nature of long and powerful weapons in a melee fight. But when it comes to duels, you can honestly put a ton of pressure on them with faster weapons like Longsword.

There is no "Duel" at the moment. People are playing for trolls, not testing.
It's frustrating as hell.

I too wish there was an official Duel mode.

PS: You guys who claim to be "god" like - if you want to be usefull for this community, do a in-depth tutorial vid on how to imput commands rightly with this shit 240 angle system. (Since the game didnt provided it itself).

See first point... my workaround for now is just playing with chiv binds + mouse x-axis input.

I see a lot of people complain about facehugs (which I'm not convinced is a problem right now with MOST weapons - I do think certain thinks like Mordhau Longsword stab are too much) being difficult to manage yet they want more difficult parries. Those two are pretty closely related.

I'm sorry but Slasher had no polish. Mordhau is an Alpha and it feels so much better than almost any other game. The combat is intuitive unlike slasher where there are six attack directions. The feeling of a real 3d space is nice.

Havoc said:

• Mordhau needs either visual GUI or 1st person animation feedback in so players know specifically what attack angle they'll activate using a swing before the windup.

Agreed, this is coming up though.

• You get knocked back a bit too much when you're hit

Disagree.

• Mordhau also needs deadzone options or whatever system is being used to determine attack direction adjustment options as currently having hard keybindings for the attack directions is better, at the cost of making some players limited in their attacks.

I do agree, 240 has problems. Slasher was even worse in this.

• Stabs are awkward using mouse directional stabs, as you'll often get the incorrect stab attack angle out, being forced to rebind each stab attack angle to mitigate this issue is not a solution. We need options to adjust our mouse dead zones, and either UI or animation feedback before the wind-up to know which direction we'll stab at.

See above.

• Parrying is very easy at the moment, and feels more akin to chiv as an all-compassing hitbox, rather than something that needs to be aimed at an opponent's weapon. It's also a bit too easy to fall back to a parry if you've made a mistake.

Parries are also super duper easy to feint, and facehugs become more powerful with difficult parries.

• Many animations, especially animation blends with fast weapons confuse players as the wind-ups look very similar to each other. Players have also mentioned that a stabs are being camouflaged as swings, as the wind-ups for certain weapons look similar.

I do agree, Alpha animations can be difficult. But I have found myself getting a lot better at reading normal stance swords. I reserve judgment on other weapons for now, but crushed has said he will look into poleaxe anims. I still haven't gotten as used to 1h anims yet.

• The wind-up mechanic for weapons is awkward as the attacks themselves are very quick. It's gotten to the point where a majority of players aren't reacting to visual cues, but rather the auditory grunt to parry. The wind-up also presents another issue that due to certain wind-up animations looking similar, players may easily attack angles for other types of attack angles, the is exemplified when an opponent attacks from the side, jumps, crouches, and/or adjusts their torso angle and brings in their attack to further confuse their target.

The anims are the issue, not the timing/speed imo.

• Don't lose stamina with a missed swing if you hit the ground or an object

Non-problem, if someone hits a wall or floor, you get a free hit. They can't CFTP.

• Under Swings being able hit behind an opponent's legs

This is actually bad if true, haven't experienced this myself.

• Thrown mace does more damage than the other thrown weapons

It also falls earlier. And devs mentioned not caring about damage value balance for now.

• Stabs are too fast, stab visual model doesn't match up with the stab tracers (looks like you're still stabbing but the hit tracer ends) stabs need a more aggressive visual animation to signify and convey solidly that the stab is no longer active to the player; forcing your stab's wind-up into another player for instant connection/no time to react.

I don't think most stabs are too fast. Longsword Mordhau is a notable exception for a weapon with that much blunt damage and speed, however.

• Acceleration making mordhau awkward with a lot of exploitable movements, makes being aggressive the better option. Being able to use the attack acceleration to greatly enhance speed such as when sprinting, or to even avoid attacks. Silly techniques such as "In & Out" in which you can use the acceleration to get out of an opponent's attack range, and then get back with-in your attack range. Stupidly useful in group fights allowing you to quickly change targets, making one opponent miss their swing, whilst hitting another. Also makes footwork a lot more awkward to judge as players can "zoom in" increasing their attack range amazingly with the acceleration.

Why not use this knowledge against them? You know they're going to accelerate, so time the chamber or position yourself accordingly. Withour nitro boost chase mechanic, the accel lets you hit people fleeing as well. And using the accel to flee means they've expended quite a bit of stam. 1vX's being less impossible for the 1 while not really affecring 1v1 doesn't sound all that bad to me. Being aggressive should be the "better" option, otherwise you end up with a boring turtly Street Fighter game if you want to play optimally.

• Wind-up with lightning fast attacks, weapons like the arming sword up close have very fast attacks, to the point where players are listening to the audio grunt rather than reacting to the actual attack animations

We all need to git gud more tbh before making judgments like this. You've played me, you noticed me getting rekt and then slowly but surely being more consistent in beating the arming sword. Against a weak but fast weapon, I get to "gamble" more and learn the enemy's playstyle because I can make more errors and misreads. Morphs and morph cancels are much deadlier against faster weapons, I find, because they're forced to play so fast.

• Wind-up mechanics actually make drags a lot more effective for slower weapons, coupled with the faster swings

Same idea as above, but opposite scenario. We need to git gud. I have found myself oftwn chambering the stab -> swing opener that so many Zwei lovers like to use. This was after I nolifed like 4 hours straight in a pub. Imagine what players will get to after 2000 hours... these weapons need longevity.

• Parries way too easy to perform

Yet facehugs are too difficult to deal with according to many.

• Zweihander being too effective, especially against plate armor, no one using the alt-grip, everyone just spamming it whilst speeding across the map

Something about devs, alpha, and damage value balancing not being examines right now. I do agree, Zweis are great for teamfights right now.

• Alt Longsword (mordhau grip) stabs too fast and does a bit more damage than it should

It should be slowed and left at that. If Mordhau doesn't consistently -1 HTK compared to normal grip, there's going to be no reason to use it. But yes, I do think it's too fast right now. Might be a case for us to git gud tho.

• Stabs coming from the side often look like weapon swings

I understand. Not sure if blame anims or git gud personally.

• Combat getting bogged-down/delayed, resulting in players either having to gamble or feint to progress combat

The difference is, you can halt gambles in this game if you see that yours won't win. If you've been diligent with spacing and chambering, you have more stam than your opponent and get to "gamble", poke, pressure, and learn your opponent's tendencies and habits. I don't see how this is worse or more static than Chivalry.

• Often after an opponent's parry, an opponent's weapon will visually look completely still then they'll swing after a very short wind-up. (Clarification: Riposte overheads whilst looking down connect almost instantly especially when the weapon-hitbox activates inside the player or right after the short wind-up)

blame anim or git gud, I don't have a problem parrying ripostes. Chambers and trying to chamber ripostes is a different matter, either git gud'ing or anims being confusing which direction it is.

• Forcing your weapon models into opponents so weapon hitboxes instantly connect

How did they even let you get to that point..., are they not holding S? Riposte kick incoming if they parry.

• Difficult to tell what attacks your opponents are doing up close due

Difficult, not impossible. Difficult isn't an issue cause you can git gud and be more consistent. Backpedaling and kicks are also good tooks.

• Feinting~parry and morph~parry meta

The top level meta I've seen is very, very aggressive.

• Chambers greatly unrewarding

No stam, fast pressure, morphs to punish counter-chamber, feint to punish parries, morph feint to punish people who counter-chamber FTP. All amazing and powerful.

• Quarterstaff animations up close are very "spastic" and difficult to understand, especially due to the small wind-up, and very fast swings.

That's kind of its schtick, it takes literally like 6 hits to kill.

• SDK needs to be released during the beta

I hope so too man.

• Overheads often not connecting with players despite the 1st person model clipping through an opponent.

This is bad, yeah.

• No incentive to not spam crouches

Less spacing.

• Plate armor extremely effective, especially due to attack acceleration which greatly extends attack range, but is often used to enhance movement speed and allow plate armor users to zoom in and out of a melee easily switching targets and dodging attacks.

Alpha balance. Attacks are also commitments, judo them with that fact.

• When you go naked with a spear and spam stabs and no one can reach you or catch up with you, zoom zoom.

Which is one reason why plate guys have movement accels in attacks, just like everyone else.

• Kicks being ineffective tools to prevent facehuggers, especially due to attack acceleration

Riposte kicks are good, hard read kicks are good (you can CFTP if you fail), morph kicks are good if they try to parry while holding W.

• Overhand and underhand attacks being difficult to interpret up close due to the wind-up animations, especially when someone is turned sideways at you or morphs into it.

Ya, I agree anims aren't 10/10 right now.

• Almost no-one uses the alt-grip on the Zweihander, Battleaxe, Eveningstar, or Greatsword as the drag and range is a lot more effective and useful than the increased swing speed.

Would probably be a different story when good players start using 1h + shield.

• Map-pickup weapons don't respawn

I KNOW, this makes me sad.

• Overhands and underhands are difficult to read due to the wind-up animations, and it's gotten to the point where a lot of players are only just chaining those attack types whilst dragging or fainting/morphing using four keybinds. It looks silly, it plays silly, but it's very effective and awful to fight against.

Anims yes. But I'm gitting gud'er to the point where I'm starting to chamber these a lot.

• Many of the one handed weapons, such as the arming sword, are lighting fast and is extremely difficult to parry up close, as often the attacks themselves only last for 3 or 4 frames when they connect to you. This is especially bad when either the wind-up is obfuscated, looks awkward due to morphing, or the weapon model is forced into a player during or right after the wind-up.

Let's making parrying harder.

Yes, imperfect anims, I agree for the 10th time.

• I keep missing my stabs because it comes out in the wrong direction, and by the time I swing it into an opponent they either zoomed off to the side, or the stab ends even though my stab is going through them.

Blame 240 or yourself. I don't like 240 as it is either.

• No point in clash fighting as the faster weapon will win

Here's how clash works:

Same weapon speeds - hit them first. Or you can chamber or parry instead - if they're mashing attack, they'll get caught off guard that they aren't attacking at the same time as you.

Slower weapon vs faster weapon - Parry or chamber their next attack, they'll prob be spamming click and be surprised when they can't attack immediately. Or, if you clash at max distance, SPACE THEM OUT AND HAVE THEM WHIFF, then come in for the kill or feint the CFTP.

Faster vs slower weapon - Don't get baited into missing. If you're really close, you will win the clash race. He has to parry or chamber.

• Lack of Dev interaction besides crushed occasionally hopping into discord

Um.

• Feinting/Morphing too effective

Gut gid.

• Being able to spam jump/crouch attack spamming without issue

Stam.

• Can't ever safely connect my kick against someone when they're face hugging me, sprinting at my side using the attack acceleration

Kick turn cap may need looking into, or might be git gud. I'm not sure yet.

• Sometimes combo attack queuing will ignore my cancel inputs even before the wind-up of the next attack will commence

If legit, ya this is bad.

• Spamming attacks is really good at the moment since you fly across the map with speed

Does spamming without thought win you versus players like Gauntlet though? And don't mix mindless spamming with actual pressure.

• Being able to flourish into a stab or a stab morph

is awesome.

• Shields a bit too effective especially combined with plate armor

Possibly. Haven't faced good shields, so this is something I can't judge. This is something people are not testing and pushing the boundaries of because shields are perceived as boring.

• Players fighting like jackhammers on crack spasming out to try to confuse you, with morphing and feints it's way too good

Outplay them. Aggression is fun when you're good at it, and more fun to watch as well!

• Awkward to judge an opponent's attack range due to the attack acceleration

This is 100% git gud.

• Feinting and morphing animation spam up close confuses my old man brain

Even stab -> strikes, I am starting to chamber the strike after being patient with the stab. Same principle as feint reading.

• The jump feels like you're on the moon

tru

I'll accept that your title is just clickbait. Slasher had same problems concerning animations and 240, which comprise 2/3 of your complaints, the only Mordhau-unique one being the movement accel with attacks.

@MeTaLAnGeR said:
Until they implement a better 240 system, my hype for this game is going down.

The 240 system is so easy to use. I don't understand people's complaints

@PJ_Ammas said:

@MeTaLAnGeR said:
Until they implement a better 240 system, my hype for this game is going down.

The 240 system is so easy to use. I don't understand people's complaints

agreed tbh.

I'd say the devs are quite active, compared to most other developers.