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Make the block hitbox smaller

Sellsword 175 176
  • 1
  • 13 Sep '17
 Kill3rCat

Y'know, so people actually have to aim their blocks. The block hitbox is too big as is; there have been times when an attack should have missed an opponent but collided with the block hitbox anyway.

Btw, I'm liking the Alpha. Werily gud. Not quite as frustrating as Chivalry, with its wonky animations and engine exploits, but still competetive.

Baron 5 8
  • 13 Sep '17
 O.Spaceman

Blocking feels like Jedi lightsaber match instead of medical combat right now. Blocking direction needs to matter more.

Baron 291 224
  • 13 Sep '17
 Esa1996

A slightly smaller parry hitbox would be nice. Otherwise I really like parries in Mordhau. They are actually quite reliable and also fast enough that I'm not constantly getting frustrated by them like I was in Chiv.

Sellsword 175 176
  • 13 Sep '17
 Kill3rCat

@O.Spaceman said:
medical combat

3234 4264
  • 13 Sep '17
 Havoc

Yeah, the parry skill ceiling is a bit low atm and results in a stall that can usually only be broken by feinting or gambling.

Knight 5410 7408
  • 13 Sep '17
 Humble Staff

I agree, parry box could use some shrinking

Sellsword 175 176
  • 1
  • 13 Sep '17
 Kill3rCat

@Havoc said:
Yeah, the parry skill ceiling is a bit low atm and results in a stall that can usually only be broken by feinting or gambling.

That's precisely the problem with feints though.

I posted this in another thread, but the problem with feints is that they take hardly any skill to execute, but have a disproportionately high payoff. In a timing-based combat system, feints and drags are simply overpowered.

Parries take very little skill to pull off, and have a fairly low payoff. I would like the parry hitbox made around 50% smaller, and I would also totally be in favour of reducing the parry time window and making it harder to pull off, but only if drags had their putrid sweaty nutsack sliced off.

1315 2881
  • 1
  • 13 Sep '17
 Monsteri

@Havoc said:
Yeah, the parry skill ceiling is a bit low atm and results in a stall that can usually only be broken by feinting or gambling.

Are you using any of the following techniques? Dragging, acceleration, side strafing, z-stabs, riposte kicks, chambers, offensive morphs, chamber morphs, chamber drags/accels, fakeouts... riposte feints, chamber feints, chamber morph feints, feint to parry? All of those can be combined and mixed up. Slow duels are usually just lack of player skill.

301 875
  • 13 Sep '17
 Naleaus

People seem to have the same problem as in Chivalry. They see feinting as a bad thing an purposely don't use it. The skill level is pretty low right now, once people are better at chambering and the defensive mentality goes away, feints are pretty nerfed.

Morphs are really fucking powerful at the moment, much more so than feints. Drags are still doable, but require much more precision.

Sellsword 175 176
  • 13 Sep '17
 Kill3rCat

@Naleaus said:
People seem to have the same problem as in Chivalry. They see feinting as a bad thing an purposely don't use it. The skill level is pretty low right now, once people are better at chambering and the defensive mentality goes away, feints are pretty nerfed.

Morphs are really fucking powerful at the moment, much more so than feints. Drags are still doable, but require much more precision.

Feinting is bad. It's a ridiculously easy thing to do, which has a disproportionately high payoff in a timing-based combat system. It's a crutch, like drags, and nobody wants to be that guy.

Knight 5410 7408
  • 13 Sep '17
 Humble Staff

@Monsteri said:

@Havoc said:
Yeah, the parry skill ceiling is a bit low atm and results in a stall that can usually only be broken by feinting or gambling.

At this point I have to ask: are you using any of the following techniques? Dragging, acceleration, side strafing, z-stabs, riposte kicks, chambers, offensive morphs, chamber morphs, chamber drags/accels, fakeouts... riposte feints, chamber feints, chamber morph feints, feint to parry? All of those can be combined and mixed up. Slow duels are usually just lack of player skill.

You know what, you are right, i currently suck ass at the game so i should wait for longer to give proper feedback. <-that is not sarcasm.

Sellsword 175 176
  • 13 Sep '17
 Kill3rCat

@Monsteri said:
At this point I have to ask: are you using any of the following techniques? Dragging, acceleration, side strafing, z-stabs, riposte kicks, chambers, offensive morphs, chamber morphs, chamber drags/accels, fakeouts... riposte feints, chamber feints, chamber morph feints, feint to parry? All of those can be combined and mixed up. Slow duels are usually just lack of player skill.

Feints are a crutch.

Dragging = acceleration but in the opposite direction, hardly deserves its own listing

Side strafing is something most people do subconsciously anyway

Z-stabs probably won't work with the generous parry hitbox in the game atm.

Chamber drags/accels doesn't deserve its own listing, as it's just a combination... same for most of your 'techniques'... pretentious af

301 875
  • 13 Sep '17
 Naleaus

@Kill3rCat said:

@Naleaus said:
People seem to have the same problem as in Chivalry. They see feinting as a bad thing an purposely don't use it. The skill level is pretty low right now, once people are better at chambering and the defensive mentality goes away, feints are pretty nerfed.

Morphs are really fucking powerful at the moment, much more so than feints. Drags are still doable, but require much more precision.

Feinting is bad. It's a ridiculously easy thing to do, which has a disproportionately high payoff in a timing-based combat system. It's a crutch, like drags, and nobody wants to be that guy.

If you stab feint me, I'm going to end up stabbing you due to how easy chambering stabs are. I'm rubbish at other angles due to only playing 2 days, but feints are pretty well countered by chambers, and turn them into medium risk, high reward.

Wait till the playerbase gets better at the mechanics that nerfs feinting before considering it bad. I'd also suggest using EVERYTHING available at the moment, because the game shouldn't be balanced by gut reactions based on biases from other games.

Sellsword 175 176
  • 13 Sep '17
 Kill3rCat

@Naleaus said:

@Kill3rCat said:

@Naleaus said:
People seem to have the same problem as in Chivalry. They see feinting as a bad thing an purposely don't use it. The skill level is pretty low right now, once people are better at chambering and the defensive mentality goes away, feints are pretty nerfed.

Morphs are really fucking powerful at the moment, much more so than feints. Drags are still doable, but require much more precision.

Feinting is bad. It's a ridiculously easy thing to do, which has a disproportionately high payoff in a timing-based combat system. It's a crutch, like drags, and nobody wants to be that guy.

If you stab feint me, I'm going to end up stabbing you due to how easy chambering stabs are. I'm rubbish at other angles due to only playing 2 days, but feints are pretty well countered by chambers, and turn them into medium risk, high reward.

Wait till the playerbase gets better at the mechanics that nerfs feinting before considering it bad. I'd also suggest using EVERYTHING available at the moment, because the game shouldn't be balanced by gut reactions based on biases from other games.

Fair enough. I think chambers are a worthy addition to the game, as a counter to what was in Chivalry an overperforming low-risk, high-reward crutch, that being feints.

You're right, the game's not been in Alpha for two days, so perhaps I should give it some more time. The similarities to Chivalry are quite overt, however, and I so I think a direct comparison is not unfair.

301 875
  • 13 Sep '17
 Naleaus

@Kill3rCat said:
Fair enough. I think chambers are a worthy addition to the game, as a counter to what was in Chivalry an overperforming low-risk, high-reward crutch, that being feints.

You're right, the game's not been in Alpha for two days, so perhaps I should give it some more time. The similarities to Chivalry are quite overt, however, and I so I think a direct comparison is not unfair.

Some of the same things about feints do carry over from Chivalry. In Chivalry, maintaining initiative was one of the most important things when fighting with feints. Can't be feinted if they can't safely attack. It's actually even more important to be aggressive in Mordhau in most cases.

The defensive playstyle only really works in a few instances that I've seen. Using a shield allows you to play up close more defensively, negating the need to read most feints, morphs, etc. The only downside is range, and in 1st at least, your view.
The other instance is if you're using a long range weapon and can keep a good amount of distance. This makes feints easy to read or dodge.

The last is if you're just a defensive god and can read everything. Chambers are more effective than this though.

Sellsword 175 176
  • 13 Sep '17
 Kill3rCat

@Naleaus said:
If you stab feint me, I'm going to end up stabbing you due to how easy chambering stabs are.

Wait, you can chamber feints?

1315 2881
  • 2
  • 13 Sep '17
 Monsteri

@Kill3rCat said:

@Naleaus said:
If you stab feint me, I'm going to end up stabbing you due to how easy chambering stabs are.

Wait, you can chamber feints?

The idea with chambers is that you see the guy going for a specific type of attack (it's usually accel with feints) so you start your own attack in preparation for chambering, but if the guy ends up feinting, your chamber attempt will hit him. He'll have to either feint to parry and lose a lot of stamina or take the hit.

With some slow/fast matchups this doesn't always work, but that is a tradeoff of the slow dragging weapons - they are really powerful once you get a drag combo going, but taking the initiative and punishing mistakes are difficult.

301 875
  • 2
  • 14 Sep '17
 Naleaus

@Kill3rCat said:

@Naleaus said:
If you stab feint me, I'm going to end up stabbing you due to how easy chambering stabs are.

Wait, you can chamber feints?

What @Monsteri said. They counter the feint through aggression. In Chivalry, this would be called gambling because you'll either force a trade, get hit, or punish.

In Mordhau, it's less of a gamble because the mechanic is designed to counter feints. You either hit them because they feinted and didn't parry or chamber them and reclaim initiative. They could drag their attack or morph it to avoid the chamber attempt, which you could either match, ftp or even just hit them first depending on the weapon. Going to require more time to get good at everything.

Sellsword 175 176
  • 1
  • 14 Sep '17
 Kill3rCat

Really? In my experience, if I attempted to chamber too early (beginning my attack when their attack was still in the windup phase), their weapon would end up hitting and flinching me. I found in order to successfully chamber, I had to begin my windup once their weapon entered release.

Knight 256 264
  • 14 Sep '17
 CrimsonKing

In my opinion it's still too early for this kind of feedback.
Let the alpha run for a few weeks before any "balance" suggestions.