Mordhau
 ToLazy4Name
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  • Date joined 25 Oct '15
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3504 4322

@vanguard said:
What I'm trying to say is, although free market might bring prosperity, you can't simply say its only because of that, because we have places that have free market that are worse then places who actually have serious State intervention in the economy, so there must be more things going on besides free market or state intervention right?

First, i'm not gonna bother to respond to your first post before this one because all you're doing is taking individuals and grouping them together. I refuse to engage with such collectivist thought. It's the very antithesis of everything I hold sacred. Now, onto what i'm actually qouting here:

Yes, this is true, and it again cuts back to the point that Sowell was making: things aren't even. Some countries have better resources, some have citizens who are more hard working, some have citizens who are more intelligent and so on 'n' so forth. Factors that would hold back a country (as opposed to simply not propelling it forward, like a lack of the previously mentioned traits) would be things like a corrupt government, inefficient police force and authoritarian control of the economy, which are almost always present in the nations of the world who aren't doing very well.

Edit: Also in regards to one nation being less economically free than another yet being better off or vice versa, you've always got to take into account history. I mean, if Hong Kong overnight became a 100% socialist state, you couldn't exactly say it got to where it is thanks to socialism, you'd have to wait to see how it ends up going down the line before judging anything, same as if Russia suddenly went 100% free market. This is why I like using Pinochet as an example (though I know you disagree with my conclusions on Pinochet, I think you can see my point here).

We could go on about our invididual philosophies literally forever. Honestly, I think if you and I want to have a fruitful discussion here that will actually go somewhere we should start discussing individual policy choices themselves (tax rates, regulations, health care, laws, etc) and not overarching concepts of systems and the like. This might also get others to chime in other than Furst since they'll just need to type up their opinion on the currently discussed policy and not a novel about their entire world view.

3504 4322
  • 12 Jan
 ToLazy4Name

@Sammy said:

@CaptainGaymer said:
lazy doesnt own a door he sleeps in a tent in the woods

I'll piss on him then

If you can piss from the border of my property to where i'm usually at, then I applaud you and won't even exercise my 2nd amendment right to kill British people. If you step onto my property tho then you'd best be a fast little fuck which considering your fashy haircut i'm gonna assume you're a bit on the chunky side tbh

3504 4322
  • 12 Jan
 ToLazy4Name

@Sammy said:
Anyone else agree that we should get rid of money, that way no one is poor.

Tru

3504 4322
  • 12 Jan
 ToLazy4Name

You'd also have alot less people taking over servers for their own private use if they can easily just click some shit and have a listen server up 'n' running.

3504 4322
  • 12 Jan
 ToLazy4Name

@vanguard said:
No.

I mean CIA training military around the world to make coups that will install governments that will fuck with national companies and economy as a whole, to babysit businessman in USA. In some cases even raping democracy man, or founding terrorist groups, surrounding russians with nuclear weapons, influencing elections etc. You know, alienating whole nations to your country's rulling class interests and shit. These are the things that make your country empire Mr Lazy, what else could I be talking about here. If you watched Mr Noam video about american imperialism (idk if I posted it, here it is anyways https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kcPyqMWems ), these things that happened through your country's history you see, since the beggining of it and all.

See, now that you're defining what you mean instead of throwing it in with a bunch of other stuff that I thought you were conflating it with, i'm agreeing with you. Many major powers meddle in the affairs of other nations far too much, the USA being the most egregious of these by far, and it needs to stop. It's why I vote for people like Rand Paul, who want everyone to be left the fuck alone. Conflating this with capitalism, however, isn't something I agree with, and again i'll point to Switzerland and Hong Kong.

@vanguard said:
Yes, but its no fair deal. Worker wins money per hour, while owner wins per product. Nike factory, 200 shoes per hour, each one costs 100 dollars. Woker recieves 5 dollars per hour. I need money, but why shouldn't it be a fair deal? Why the owner has to stay with most of the wealth created while providing shitty conditions to the workers, unless they fucking threat to kill his family and the whole fucking national economy due strikes? Some cases only with the threat of a civil war the owner cunts give sort of a better condition. This lead us to the next point

Who decides what is a fair deal? Why is what you think of as a fair deal what the entire world should think of as a fair deal? Hell, better yet, why in this specific instance do you think that the worker should get all of the money from the shoe being sold? Did the worker pay for the raw materials that are being used to make the shoe? Did the worker even make the entirety of the shoe himself, or did multiple people make different parts of the shoe? Did the worker pay for the factory or building or whatever that he's working in? The answer to most of those questions i'm going to assume is "no" which makes me very confused as to why you think he should get all the money from making the product when he likely wouldn't be making a product in the first place without the owner putting his ass on the line by starting up the business. You're ignoring the costs that must be met to keep the business afloat.

@vanguard said:
Then the State sends the police to rekt your shit if the strike gets out of hand and starts affecting national economy (imagine here metal workers strike for instance, not one factory but a whole cathegory of workers), or employer simply fires the leadership of the strike to give example, and hire other cunts paying even less. Or even, and probably the most smart move, owners buys the labour union (very common practice in Brazil tbh, falls into corruption cathegory maybe?) so there are never any really significant strikes that will actually improve the worker condition, but the strikes that happens are actually carefully planed by the owners WITH the labour union. Labor unions can even be used to defuse strikes!

Congratulations, you have a corrupt and authoritarian government. I pity your situation and hope it gets better. In the mean time, i'll continue to apply these practices over here in the USA where we don't get our heads cracked open for disagreenig with our employer and petitioning him for things.

@vanguard said:
What if every worker tryies to do this? Can you imagine a whole cathegory of workers who suffer the same thing, all of them quit the job and start their own business. This is utopia Mr Lazy, not real option at all. Even if they did, most of the business created wouldn't be a success, thus forcing them back to the proletariat class, and the circle of capitalism repeats itself once again.

Oh, so the workers wouldn't be able to run their own businesses and socialize the profits? Then why would the other companies be able to?

@vanguard said:
Lets be fair Lazy, what a shitty video man. I'm not even being fair with the man speaking because honestly, 4 mins man, I had to watch and rewatch the video like 3 times to try and make some points about it, and my points are fucking weak because its too short and badly explained, I don't even know where does he wanna go with these points. Whats he trying to say? Whats he criticizing? Very shallow content tbh, if you have bigger interview or something it would be better for debate imo. Or even a wall of text, I like walls of text man send them in tbh if you have. I don't mind.

His point is that you don't explain why one place is poor, you explain why another place is rich. Why is Hong Kong doing so well for itself despite the fact that it's a tiny area with almost no natural resources surrounded by the choking smog of China? Literally everything is arrayed aganist it, yet in spite of this it has rapidly advanced its economy and in the course of roughly ~100 years it has gone from a near third world shithole to an economic focal point with a GDP that rivals the USA (and it'll likely surpass it shortly considering its massive growth up to this point). If you can provide me with an answer other than "it has the most free, capitalistic economy on the entire planet and citizens with the will to take advantage of it" then i'd like to hear it.

3504 4322
  • 11 Jan
 ToLazy4Name

Also, is "imperialism" to you simply the act of investing in a foreign economy? If a company from country A invests in the economy of country B (opening up a branch of their business there, becoming a stock holder on a new startup, etc) is that what you would classify as "imperialism?"

3504 4322
  • 11 Jan
 ToLazy4Name

Also this

3504 4322
  • 11 Jan
 ToLazy4Name

@vanguard said:

@ToLazy4Name said:
Right, the working class is being exploited by entering into mutual agreements to perform a service in exchange for something else. The higher standard of living that all developed capitalistic nations have in comparison to other nations with little economic freedom is a sign of them being exploited. Got it. Venezuela, despite being a rapidly collapsing shithole, is better than all capitalist nations because even though its people are starving and being gunned down in the streets, at least they're not being exploited by the evil other human beings who are giving them shit for doing shit. I'll be sure to tell my friend who makes alot of money working 60 hours a week in construction that he's being exploited, and not being given recompense for a service that he chooses to put a fuckload of work into.

Where the fuck you take from its a mutual agreement? If it was so, there would NEVER be any strikes in history, because its fucking mutual agreements. Working class is doing a service to other person because otherwise it fucking starves to death due no moneys, its really not like you have a option.

Correct, you have no option but to be altruistic and provide someone else with something they want in exchange for what you want. If you don't, you starve, as you should. If the work you can get isn't up to your standards, then you can go on strikes and such in order to convince your employer to do what you want, or you can fuck off and start your own business and socialize the wealth you create within your own business.

3504 4322
  • 11 Jan
 ToLazy4Name

If they think that'll help, then sure.

3504 4322
  • 11 Jan
 ToLazy4Name

yeah private ownership = no criticism sammy you idiot

3504 4322
  • 11 Jan
 ToLazy4Name

this is the new official politics thread :^)

3504 4322
  • 11 Jan
 ToLazy4Name

If by "trigger the devs" you mean activate the pollack's autism then sure

wait fuck i've got a good meme that'll trigger him one sec

3504 4322
  • 11 Jan
 ToLazy4Name

Oh yeah, forgot to mention imperialism. Can't forget the evil imperialism that props up all capitlist nations, especially Hong Kong and Switzerland who are super capitalistic and thus super imperialistic by default despite Switzerland's modus operandi being "leave us alone we're neutral" and Hong Kong barely possessing any sort of defense force.

3504 4322
  • 11 Jan
 ToLazy4Name

Right, the working class is being exploited by entering into mutual agreements to perform a service in exchange for something else. The higher standard of living that all developed capitalistic nations have in comparison to other nations with little economic freedom is a sign of them being exploited. Got it. Venezuela, despite being a rapidly collapsing shithole, is better than all capitalist nations because even though its people are starving and being gunned down in the streets, at least they're not being exploited by the evil other human beings who are giving them shit for doing shit. I'll be sure to tell my friend who makes alot of money working 60 hours a week in construction that he's being exploited, and not being given recompense for a service that he chooses to put a fuckload of work into.

3504 4322
  • 11 Jan
 ToLazy4Name

so wait are Jews not the cause of all evil i'm confused

3504 4322
  • 11 Jan
 ToLazy4Name

o sorry let me respond to "Jews are the cause of all evil"

"no"

3504 4322
  • 11 Jan
 ToLazy4Name

he'd probably blame it on the Jews because he doesn't like Jews tbh

3504 4322
  • 11 Jan
 ToLazy4Name

I agree, everyone should be more like me because holy shit let me tell you: i'm fucking cool ok

3504 4322
  • 11 Jan
 ToLazy4Name

My money's on the Jews using their telekinetic mind powers to take down the WTC tbh

3504 4322
  • 11 Jan
 ToLazy4Name

those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones tbh sambo my bud