Mordhau

Smurfs

14 6
  • 4 Jan
 Lu2

Do you have any intentions to make some antismurfing mechanic?

i know its imposible. less money for you + steam family share

but chiv eu servers are just ridicilous

528 691

http://mordhau.com/forum/topic/1104/what-do-the-developers-think-about-smurfs-and-game/#c5

I didn't get a dev response but I (and others) had a few suggestions for mitigating the impact of this.

386 265
  • 5 Jan
 Etrius

guys we got reborn smurfs brewing about again.

3512 4344

Considering they won't stop forum smurfs I doubt it

75 56
 das

Family share smurfs should be really simple to prevent. It doesn't work on almost every other steam game for a reason. At worst, they could force you to make a separate account & password when logging into Mordhau like many non-Steam exclusive multiplayer games.

3038 2818
  • 6 Jan
 Sammy

Who the fuck actually cares about fucking Smurfs?

528 691

It doesn't matter at all in Chiv. But I can see why it might be annoying to derank in a competitive game because someone decided their bracket was too hard.

2389 1875

^ the real cancer of smurfing is in comp games like CSGO and OW when people decide to make a new acc to rekt noobs because they want ez win

but still nothing can really be done but reporting suspected players

2089 2335

@CaptainGaymer said:
^ the real cancer of smurfing is in comp games like CSGO and OW when people decide to make a new acc to rekt noobs because they want ez win

but still nothing can really be done but reporting suspected players

what is the problem of this even ? Its Mordhau and noobs need to learn the hard way

also who wants ez win? wut iz the point in going low-level when u know u already rekt them

374 482
  • 7 Jan
 Monsteri

I don't think smurfing has ever been a big problem even in rank-based matchmaking. Bar a few factors, their numbers are too insignificant to actually affect the ranking of the people they come up against, and they will be back to their original rank soon if the system works as intended. There can be a few cases where the amount of smurfs on lower levels might be a real problem, but they are always a fault of the system.

I have a lot of experience with CS:GO, where smurfing has often been a pretty big topic. There are five things which generally drive people to alt accounts:

1) The top levels of play are laden with cheaters. For a time it was abysmal in CS:GO, and the reason I made a smurf in the first place. You could easily queue with 5 spinbotters in a row and next have 3 wallhacker games. Playing at the top levels of matchmaking was a chore, since finding a legit game often took you way too long, and the possibility that the enemy would rage toggle at the final rounds was always there. Valve recently fixed this with well-timed VAC ban waves and the prime matchmaking system, which requires a certain amount of playtime and a working phone number to enter.

2) People can't play with their friends because their rankings are different. This is another big one. Very often people will have their friends get into the game they've been playing for a while themselves, and as a result have semi-high ranking, restricting them from playing with the friend(s) they introduced to the game. What's there left to do? Either derank on purpose, or buy a smurf account. Or you can play one of the shit casual modes and not enjoy yourself at all. In a way this is necessary to have balanced games, but maybe not. I think the matchmaker could just find an equal distribution of player ranks for both teams. In CS:GO's case, the situation would be greatly alleviated with unranked matchmaking, which would have all the rules of competitive games but no rank restriction or any effect on ranking.

3) The wait times are too long on the top ranks. Often I want to play some unpopular map in CS:GO, and instead of waiting for 14 minutes to find a game, I will just hop on my alt and find a game within three minutes. This could be alleviated with a myriad of ways, from a rotating map pool to more frequent skin drops on unpopular maps.

4) People want to just play casually and unwind a little, but doing this on the competitive mode might not be fun since not paying attention usually results in a quick death. Having well designed casual modes fixes the issue.

5) Some scrub just wants to stomp on some noobs. These cases are negligible, though often overreacted to. If the scrub is truly stomping on the noobs, he will quickly rank up to where he won't be able to do that anymore.

3038 2818
  • 7 Jan
 Sammy

Four of those Val are easily fixed if you just have a server browser so you can play casually along with the matchmaking.

I'd probably play in the server browser forever, I don't care much for matchmaking.

139 159
  • 9 Jan
 Zexis

@TheDankestMeme said:
also who wants ez win? wut iz the point in going low-level when u know u already rekt them

validation. "ha ha i kill u noob me god at gam ke ke". IMO skill tiers and comp gaming is a disease to the playerbase but whatever

I don't think smurfs will be a big issue. say a high skill player makes a smurf to stomp in the low ranks. is that any different than the player purposely deranking on their main? and as soon as that high level player starts playing seriously again, they'll rank back up and stop annoying the low levels. if the low levels were knocked down a few points on the ladder, they should be able to go back up in no time.

the only time I really see people upset over smurfs in a game like chiv is in pub matches where some high rank dude sees a low level player and thinks it'll be an ez win and then gets bootyblasted when they find out it's a smurf. ego, lol

2089 2335

but anyway, dont you need to buy the game another time to smurf?

2389 1875

not if youre smart and use family sharing

unless the devs disable family sharing, in which case yes you do

19 14

I know it's no justification for smurfs existing, but admittedly I learned way quicker than I would have normally by playing against them in Chivalry.

Agreed though, it's not too big of a problem to most people, even low rank casual players, especially since it doesn't happen often.

41 80
  • 2
  • 13 Jan
 Alphonse

@Monsteri said:
I don't think smurfing has ever been a big problem even in rank-based matchmaking. Bar a few factors, their numbers are too insignificant to actually affect the ranking of the people they come up against, and they will be back to their original rank soon if the system works as intended. There can be a few cases where the amount of smurfs on lower levels might be a real problem, but they are always a fault of the system.

Nah, smurfing is the true cancer in competitive modes based on match making and ranking systems like TrueSkill which is based on winrate. Of course this affects game modes where there are fewer players because each individual has more impact on the outcome of the match.

Rocket League is an example of this, which is why the devs disabled Family sharing accounts from playing Ranked matches (it doesn't exactly remove the smurf problem as some console players can still create new accounts but it's something). The goal of anyone playing comp modes ni that game is to git gud and climb in the rankings.

Scumbags would create new fresh accounts to boost their friends to ranks they didn't belong or they would only get to after grinding for many hours. It got so ridiculous that a lot of top 100 players were only there because they had exploited the system through boosting and smurfing and some had to be punished (because 70% of their matches had been with a teammate with an account rated a lot lower).

The game has a fail-safe system though, but it sucks as it is/was very ineffective. The way your ELO is determined is by having a value for your MMR (Mu) and an 'uncertainty' variable or multiplier (Sigma). The less games you've played, your uncertainty is very high because the system doesn't know just how good it is, so every win or loss multiplies your MMR by a lot. The more games you've played, the uncertainty regarding your skill is a lot lower and capped at 2.5, meaning in this scenario, you will win and lose less points from each match. This means you'll find your ceiling (MMR-wise) in the medium-term and join matches where your odds of winning are competitive.

Supposedly, a very skilled player (i.e., a smurf) would climb the ranks a lot higher thanks to that high Sigma, meaning his chances of encountering less skilled players in comp modes would be lower. But in practice this was utter shit. I've got a ton of matches reaching 900 MMR and I'll encounter players with 20 matches with that same MMR. I can't win against them and I get demoted anyway.

Say you are average scrub around the 20-30%. Play a 5v5 mode in Mordhau where the other team is composed of friends where 2 or 3 of them belong to that 20-30%, yet a few more skilled friends join their team with a smurf account. Chances of a team of 5 players properly skill-rated (at 20-30% of the playerbase, skill wise) beating a team with 2 or 3 smurfs that are in the top 2-5% are very slim, so it basically ruins the competitiveness and the fun of climbing the ranks.

I've been taking down notes of my opponents skill rating in Rocket League and after 300 duels, I've encountered 10-15% of "new" accounts that beat the shit out of me.

The approach of disabling family sharing accounts from playing ranked games is decent, but it still ruins the fun in casual modes. It can also be worked-around by purchasing the game a second time, which is already the case in Rocket League. Some players own a PC and a console, or they play on PC and bought the game twice or thrice to boost their buddies or fuck around.

Skill-based games with some sort of match making or ranking system should take every step to minimizing the effects of smurfs because nobody likes decidedly unfair matches and losing their precious play time trying to overcome the impossible.

2089 2335

@Alphonse said:

@Monsteri said:
I don't think smurfing has ever been a big problem even in rank-based matchmaking. Bar a few factors, their numbers are too insignificant to actually affect the ranking of the people they come up against, and they will be back to their original rank soon if the system works as intended. There can be a few cases where the amount of smurfs on lower levels might be a real problem, but they are always a fault of the system.

Nah, smurfing is the true cancer in competitive modes based on match making and ranking systems like TrueSkill which is based on winrate. Of course this affects game modes where there are fewer players because each individual has more impact on the outcome of the match.

Rocket League is an example of this, which is why the devs disabled Family sharing accounts from playing Ranked matches (it doesn't exactly remove the smurf problem as some console players can still create new accounts but it's something). The goal of anyone playing comp modes ni that game is to git gud and climb in the rankings.

Scumbags would create new fresh accounts to boost their friends to ranks they didn't belong or they would only get to after grinding for many hours. It got so ridiculous that a lot of top 100 players were only there because they had exploited the system through boosting and smurfing and some had to be punished (because 70% of their matches had been with a teammate with an account rated a lot lower).

The game has a fail-safe system though, but it sucks as it is/was very ineffective. The way your ELO is determined is by having a value for your MMR (Mu) and an 'uncertainty' variable or multiplier (Sigma). The less games you've played, your uncertainty is very high because the system doesn't know just how good it is, so every win or loss multiplies your MMR by a lot. The more games you've played, the uncertainty regarding your skill is a lot lower and capped at 2.5, meaning in this scenario, you will win and lose less points from each match. This means you'll find your ceiling (MMR-wise) in the medium-term and join matches where your odds of winning are competitive.

Supposedly, a very skilled player (i.e., a smurf) would climb the ranks a lot higher thanks to that high Sigma, meaning his chances of encountering less skilled players in comp modes would be lower. But in practice this was utter shit. I've got a ton of matches reaching 900 MMR and I'll encounter players with 20 matches with that same MMR. I can't win against them and I get demoted anyway.

Say you are average scrub around the 20-30%. Play a 5v5 mode in Mordhau where the other team is composed of friends where 2 or 3 of them belong to that 20-30%, yet a few more skilled friends join their team with a smurf account. Chances of a team of 5 players properly skill-rated (at 20-30% of the playerbase, skill wise) beating a team with 2 or 3 smurfs that are in the top 2-5% are very slim, so it basically ruins the competitiveness and the fun of climbing the ranks.

I've been taking down notes of my opponents skill rating in Rocket League and after 300 duels, I've encountered 10-15% of "new" accounts that beat the shit out of me.

The approach of disabling family sharing accounts from playing ranked games is decent, but it still ruins the fun in casual modes. It can also be worked-around by purchasing the game a second time, which is already the case in Rocket League. Some players own a PC and a console, or they play on PC and bought the game twice or thrice to boost their buddies or fuck around.

Skill-based games with some sort of match making or ranking system should take every step to minimizing the effects of smurfs because nobody likes decidedly unfair matches and losing their precious play time trying to overcome the impossible.

yeah ok, but the harder it is, the most u learn, no?

41 80
  • 13 Jan
 Alphonse

Not necessarily.

It depends on the player's attitude towards the game and competition in general. But the biggest factor is how apart in skill are is the player versus the smurf.

If they are too far apart, the player won't be able to pick up on his mistakes or come up with anything close to a strategy to defeat the smurf.

3038 2818
  • 13 Jan
 Sammy

SERVER BROWSER WILL PROBABLY STOP ALTS FOR THE MOST PART BECAUSE IT MEANS YOU CAN KILL N00BS WITHOUT NEEDING TO MAKE ALT

2089 2335

@Alphonse said:
Not necessarily.

It depends on the player's attitude towards the game and competition in general. But the biggest factor is how apart in skill are is the player versus the smurf.

If they are too far apart, the player won't be able to pick up on his mistakes or come up with anything close to a strategy to defeat the smurf.

just change serv tbh